Predator Pastors and Darvo Tactics: Seeing Through the Fog of Gaslighting with Lori Adams-Brown

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Welcome to the a World of Difference

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podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown, and this is

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a podcast for those who are different and

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want to make a difference. This podcast is

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sponsored by Betterhelp. If you are a

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person who really wants to understand what

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your strengths are, maybe you're not going

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through anything huge in your life.

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crisis, although it's definitely for that.

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therapy is also also a where you're just

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stepping into your own skin figuring out

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who you are what it is you're offering to

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the world around us and how you're making

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the world a better place Betterhelp is

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your first month of therapy That is

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www.betterhelp.com difference to get 10

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off your first month Today today on the

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podcast I'm just going to talk to you

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listeners all around the world Making a

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difference in all in of places in many

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different countries and in many different

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situations today might feel a little bit

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like a true crime podcast.That is not the

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genre of this podcast Although we do

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occasionally address issues that are

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related to ethical moral issues and even

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crimes And especially we've covered

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especially little bit of that in faith

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communities As far as leaders of faith

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communities that have done things that

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would be considered criminal but often

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criminal, addition to that just ethically

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and morally wrong But today I'm going

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today just delve a little bit into a

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Twitter thread a I posted last week that

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many of you found helpful and it resonated

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with many of you.I was on a work trip to a

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flying back through Chicago back to San

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Francisco and just waiting in line to get

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on the plane in Chicago and O'Hare which

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was and long line So I stood there and I

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was processing something that had happened

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This was on Friday but I was processing

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what had happened on Monday which is news

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that I had gotten that a pastor that I a

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known in my childhood had been involved in

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his faith community was arrested on 35

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counts of sexual assault So the Twitter

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thread I don't really mention that part

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and it's still very fresh and not really

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super ready to talk about all of it But if

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you follow me at all on x Twitter you'll

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see that sometimes I'm just sort of

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processing what I'm thinking and trying to

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process that out loud with many of you who

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are trying to make are difference in your

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communities to work for truth and

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transparency.Some of you are also

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whistleblowers of abuse that you've seen

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in your faith community or in a toxic

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workplace environment And so sometimes

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that has felt lonely for me And so I reach

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out through Twitter to those of you who

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are also processing that too as we have

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these discussions And it makes a

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difference for me when I hear a diversity

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of perspectives around this But really

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that was sort of me standing in line for a

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United Airways flight back to San

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Francisco and Chicago and just putting my

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thoughts down as I waited in line.And

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really what I was processing there was I

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had reached out to somebody from that

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congregation that I know I kept in touch

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with over the years and they gave what to

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me really felt like the response of

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somebody who had been probably groomed

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with that faith community for many years

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to stand by the pastor who's committed

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crimes and to basically center him in the

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entire conversation And I was left a voice

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message by this individual who is really

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just probably repeating what they've been

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hearing This is what person who wants to

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do good in the world who do a lot of good

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in the world for the community for that

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particular faith community but for their

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community at large And I think I just kind

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of once again was shocked by the fact that

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this community which had meant so much to

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me in my childhood would also fall to

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these toxic systems that just seem to be

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increasingly pervasive in our world today

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And pervasive I process that out loud I

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mean you'll even see that as I was

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tweeting it I got the numbers off because

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it was not polished.I'm human AI did not

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generate it So this was not something from

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Chat GPT It was literally just verbatim

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the things that were left on that voice

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message for me that I've heard over and

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over and over again both in the church

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where I experienced a lot of this type of

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abusive a not sexual that I experienced or

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that people I know on that staff

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experience but definitely the abuse of

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power the authoritarianism the sort of the

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pastor being like a dictator and really

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preying on particular a and grooming

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individuals to stand by the pastor no

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matter what comes out And the parallels

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and the situations between what I

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experienced and the now what I was hearing

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in this particular faith environment was

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well as what I've heard a lot of you

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express to me through social media and

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those of you who've reached out to me

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after I spoke out in the news when I went

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on the record about my particular

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story.And if you're not familiar with that

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feel free to check out episode 100 which

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is the beginning of the our story series

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where I share my story of what it was like

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to work in a faith environment with an

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abusive pastor who a was predatory in an

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ways by using really lot of these same

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tactics whether it's a sexual abuse or

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it's tactics, psychological or a or

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spiritual or financial a some of these

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tactics they remain the same and the

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patterns are they same as to how people

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are groomed around them to cover it up And

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that betrayal blindness is a really very

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real experience psychologically that we go

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through that I also went through And so

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there is a lot of compassion I have on

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those in this community that will remain

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unnamed for now But community is

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definitely remain pattern that I saw So

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I'm just going to sort of walk through

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some of those eleven things that I heard

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in that voice message which were very

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similar to things I've heard many people

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saying when they're covering up for

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situations like what we see going on at

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IHOP KC the International House of Prayer

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in Kansas City.Right now if you're not

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familiar with that the Heaven Bent podcast

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has been covering also you know different

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reporters like Julie Royce has been

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writing about it But it just seems like if

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you paid attention at all to last week's

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episode with Lance Ford I remember him

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saying in the interview we don't know when

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this releases what the pastor is going to

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experience this whole situation where it

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comes out they've been hiding something

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behind the curtain where they've been

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abusing people It could be curtain, the

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category of crimes or sometimes when it's

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just spiritual abuse it may not be

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criminal although sometimes spiritual is

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depending on the state where you live the

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country where you live and the nature of

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what that abuse was like But definitely

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when it's sexual assault that is a

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criminal act pretty much everywhere right

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So I remember Lance saying we don't know

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when this releases what other pastor is

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going to know caught and we're going

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pastor see people.So basically in light of

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last week's podcast being what it was with

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Lance in light of the news I got Monday

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before that podcast released on Wednesday

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about this particular case of the arrest

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of this pastor that I knew and had really

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great experiences with I mean that's just

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the nature of this right Is that these

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people that I now refer to as Preda

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pastors because predator pastor it was

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becoming such as common phrase that I

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ended up saying about way too many

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situations than anyone should know about

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personally But just the nature of the work

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that I did around the world for so long

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and so many pastors that I've worked with

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the majority by far are not in this

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category But I also know way too many who

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would be considered what I know refer too

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as predator pastors.I just combined the

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word to make it as even though there's

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nothing easy about this But the it thing

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that I just sort of wrote there on Twitter

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was predate pastors groom their

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congregations so when their abuse is

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exposed and pastors they are arrested for

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their crimes the congregation knows

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exactly what to say to control their

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narrative to silence the whistleblowers

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and rally behind the abusive pastor And I

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listed some things that I hear often and

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really what the sort of motive and

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ulterior message is behind it And that's

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the part that's hard to see because of the

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gaslighting because of the grooming the

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trauma bonding the love bombing the

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ingratiation all the mix of it all It all

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sounds good ingratiation, the surface but

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when you understand what's behind it it's

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a coercion in itself.So the first thing

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that I heard in this particular message

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from this individual once again who's not

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heard horrible person they are a great

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person doing great things but they seem to

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have been groomed in the system to protect

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the abuser the criminal instead of care

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for the victims And in that message never

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once was any of the victims mentioned and

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he was arrested for 34 acts In these

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situations often we have reason to believe

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there could be many more because many of

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them never really come to the surface In

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situations like this the first thing that

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was said is we are praying for the pastor

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No that doesn't seem bad in any way at

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all.But when you understand that what's

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happening in a case like this it really is

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centering the abuser and not the victims

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Why wasn't the first thing being said We

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are praying for the victims. We're

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bringing the meals We have said? meal

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train.We're paying for the therapy We're

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are letting them decide when with whom and

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how and if they even share their story

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we're just caring for them That should be

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number one Centering survivors should be

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number one But I just almost never hear it

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in these cases.So we are praying for the

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pastor just puts him right there smack in

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the middle of the institution protecting

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itself which is what happens I mean it's

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natural right as humans to do that The

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second one was that there are people out

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to get him And if you're not familiar with

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Darvo this is are Darvo tactic to make

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people think oh it's not him that's out to

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get people People are out to get him.So

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it's reversing the roles Right So Darvo is

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really the whole deny deny the abuse is

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happening deny anything's wrong accuse or

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00:11:17,106 --> 00:11:20,118
attack the other person who's usually the

268
00:11:20,118 --> 00:11:22,360
victim survivor or whistleblower all the

269
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,466
above And then they reverse other victim

270
00:11:26,466 --> 00:11:28,806
and offender So this whole there are

271
00:11:28,806 --> 00:11:31,026
people out to get him is a psychological

272
00:11:31,026 --> 00:11:32,858
tactic that is just very commonly used

273
00:11:32,858 --> 00:11:34,570
that people don't even know they're using

274
00:11:34,570 --> 00:11:38,234
it because it's just sort of the ocean

275
00:11:38,234 --> 00:11:39,206
everybody's swimming in in these cultures

276
00:11:39,206 --> 00:11:41,398
to make it where we have a lot of empathy

277
00:11:41,398 --> 00:11:46,254
what we call that empathy in a case where

278
00:11:46,254 --> 00:11:48,206
it's a man who's abusing for the abuser

279
00:11:48,206 --> 00:11:50,254
and to not have any a for the victim a

280
00:11:50,254 --> 00:11:53,150
you're not even mentioning the it's to

281
00:11:53,150 --> 00:11:54,986
make you believe basically he's a victim

282
00:11:54,986 --> 00:11:57,166
instead of the other way around The third

283
00:11:57,166 --> 00:11:59,922
one was the accuser is trying to use this

284
00:11:59,922 --> 00:12:02,466
to build the career Now I hear this a lot

285
00:12:02,466 --> 00:12:03,794
when the accuser either the victim

286
00:12:03,794 --> 00:12:05,414
survivor or the whistleblower and

287
00:12:05,414 --> 00:12:07,014
sometimes that's the same or in other

288
00:12:07,014 --> 00:12:12,774
cases it might be the journalist or on it

289
00:12:12,774 --> 00:12:15,686
or it could be the lawyer in that person

290
00:12:15,686 --> 00:12:18,806
This phrase is what they use The third one

291
00:12:18,806 --> 00:12:22,718
the accuser is trying to use this to build

292
00:12:22,718 --> 00:12:23,834
their career.And it's a very easy sell

293
00:12:23,834 --> 00:12:25,466
when it's toward a woman because of the

294
00:12:25,466 --> 00:12:27,514
sexism the patriarchy that most of our

295
00:12:27,514 --> 00:12:29,526
cultures are swimming in It's toward a

296
00:12:29,526 --> 00:12:32,506
we've heard quite a bit And so it just

297
00:12:32,506 --> 00:12:34,538
matches When you have a narrative you've

298
00:12:34,538 --> 00:12:36,126
been told for heard long time your whole

299
00:12:36,126 --> 00:12:37,198
life potentially and you hear a narrative

300
00:12:37,198 --> 00:12:38,734
a similar It's a no brainer.It just

301
00:12:38,734 --> 00:12:41,038
matches So to think that this in this case

302
00:12:41,038 --> 00:12:43,118
it was the lawyer that they were saying

303
00:12:43,118 --> 00:12:45,886
this about that she's trying to use this,

304
00:12:45,886 --> 00:12:47,266
to build her career discounting the fact

305
00:12:47,266 --> 00:12:48,926
that crimes had actually happened but that

306
00:12:48,926 --> 00:12:50,930
she's was using this to build her lawyer

307
00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:53,954
career, and so making her out to be the

308
00:12:53,954 --> 00:12:56,066
abuser Right Instead of him The next thing

309
00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:59,078
that was said was God has forgiven the to

310
00:12:59,078 --> 00:13:03,014
once again this doesn't sound bad right

311
00:13:03,014 --> 00:13:05,218
It's a wonderful thing to hear but it also

312
00:13:05,218 --> 00:13:08,146
really is implying that you should forgive

313
00:13:08,146 --> 00:13:10,706
forget and then go along with business as

314
00:13:10,706 --> 00:13:14,154
usual like the rest of us So a lot of

315
00:13:14,154 --> 00:13:16,186
grace that's supposed to be poured upon

316
00:13:16,186 --> 00:13:17,338
someone who's committed crimes against

317
00:13:17,338 --> 00:13:19,180
vulnerable people But really this is used

318
00:13:19,180 --> 00:13:22,282
in grace way to imply well what's wrong

319
00:13:22,282 --> 00:13:26,974
with you That you're not forgiving as if

320
00:13:26,974 --> 00:13:28,794
now you're the problem not the one who's

321
00:13:28,794 --> 00:13:29,774
actually committed these crimes.So the

322
00:13:29,774 --> 00:13:32,286
next one that goes sort of along with it

323
00:13:32,286 --> 00:13:35,914
is God has big plans for the pastor Once

324
00:13:35,914 --> 00:13:38,226
again the centering of the Preda pastor in

325
00:13:38,226 --> 00:13:39,554
this scenario to protect the institution

326
00:13:39,554 --> 00:13:41,746
is really key And the pastor. lot of

327
00:13:41,746 --> 00:13:44,386
grandiosity that gets thrown around I in

328
00:13:44,386 --> 00:13:46,754
in the aftermath of the abuse allegations

329
00:13:46,754 --> 00:13:49,974
In the wake of a of that I'll hear a lot

330
00:13:49,974 --> 00:13:51,606
of grandiosity along these lines.God has

331
00:13:51,606 --> 00:13:54,358
big plans for the pastor It's meant to

332
00:13:54,358 --> 00:13:55,494
distract from the abuse and point you

333
00:13:55,494 --> 00:13:58,898
toward It's like a smoke and mirrors But

334
00:13:58,898 --> 00:14:00,770
don't keep looking at the abuse and the

335
00:14:00,770 --> 00:14:03,318
crimes Look over here at all of

336
00:14:03,318 --> 00:14:04,826
the.Sometimes they'll use the word fruit

337
00:14:04,826 --> 00:14:06,938
Get the fruit which often means the butts

338
00:14:06,938 --> 00:14:09,338
and the seats the amount of people the

339
00:14:09,338 --> 00:14:11,406
numbers of people that are being reached

340
00:14:11,406 --> 00:14:14,398
with the methods the size of the ministry

341
00:14:14,398 --> 00:14:16,846
in terms of numbers But if the fruit of

342
00:14:16,846 --> 00:14:20,334
the outcome is abused individuals that's

343
00:14:20,334 --> 00:14:23,826
not something that's being thrown around

344
00:14:23,826 --> 00:14:27,426
We're supposed to sort of ignore that and

345
00:14:27,426 --> 00:14:32,114
focus on these the things in order to help

346
00:14:32,114 --> 00:14:35,538
us sort of look the other way Like maybe

347
00:14:35,538 --> 00:14:38,706
he's done these things but it's a bit of a

348
00:14:38,706 --> 00:14:40,934
in him as a toxic rock star.Like we kind

349
00:14:40,934 --> 00:14:44,086
of need him to keep this going This

350
00:14:44,086 --> 00:14:45,686
institution is founded by him or relies on

351
00:14:45,686 --> 00:14:47,734
him a if they've been leading it for a

352
00:14:47,734 --> 00:14:50,658
while And it kind of gets you to look the

353
00:14:50,658 --> 00:14:52,518
other way who among us hasn't sinned That

354
00:14:52,518 --> 00:14:55,306
was the next one And so it's really

355
00:14:55,306 --> 00:14:56,186
downplaying the abuse and the crime to

356
00:14:56,186 --> 00:15:00,086
refer to sexual assault 35 counts of it as

357
00:15:00,086 --> 00:15:02,858
sin merely sin which it is.But it's not

358
00:15:02,858 --> 00:15:05,866
just that It's also a crime It really is

359
00:15:05,866 --> 00:15:09,680
downplaying and minimizing the abuse And

360
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,818
it's a very strong tactic that works quite

361
00:15:13,818 --> 00:15:15,586
well The next one was we shouldn't judge

362
00:15:15,586 --> 00:15:18,306
another Darvo tactic to make it look like

363
00:15:18,306 --> 00:15:20,802
well you're the one judging so maybe

364
00:15:20,802 --> 00:15:23,486
you're the offender not me.The next one is

365
00:15:23,486 --> 00:15:26,194
we need to be unified And this is really

366
00:15:26,194 --> 00:15:28,306
sort of culty language that I often hear I

367
00:15:28,306 --> 00:15:31,038
experienced it quite a bit in the

368
00:15:31,038 --> 00:15:32,566
aftermath of what I went through at Echo

369
00:15:32,566 --> 00:15:34,262
church here in the Bay area It's basically

370
00:15:34,262 --> 00:15:35,926
a tactic that is used to unify not around

371
00:15:35,926 --> 00:15:38,006
the victim but to unify around the abuser

372
00:15:38,006 --> 00:15:39,500
It's really intended to silence the

373
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:46,042
whistleblowers to be honest.But it has a

374
00:15:46,042 --> 00:15:49,594
very culty type vibe where the unification

375
00:15:49,594 --> 00:15:52,174
is higher than truth and transparency or

376
00:15:52,174 --> 00:15:54,122
justice or accountability or even

377
00:15:54,122 --> 00:15:55,966
centering the victims at all They're

378
00:15:55,966 --> 00:15:58,938
really the center still once again is the

379
00:15:58,938 --> 00:16:02,218
predator pastor himself and not the

380
00:16:02,218 --> 00:16:06,618
victims and their or that they need

381
00:16:06,618 --> 00:16:07,794
centering the aftermath of their lives

382
00:16:07,794 --> 00:16:09,854
being completely blown up And the next one

383
00:16:09,854 --> 00:16:11,746
is I'll hear and lot around spiritual

384
00:16:11,746 --> 00:16:13,906
warfare or God wants to do big things and

385
00:16:13,906 --> 00:16:17,606
it needs to start with us And so once

386
00:16:17,606 --> 00:16:19,478
again really putting the ball in your

387
00:16:19,478 --> 00:16:23,014
court to do something to protect the preda

388
00:16:23,014 --> 00:16:26,614
pastor to be a part of what sort of feels

389
00:16:26,614 --> 00:16:31,206
like drawing again, line putting the sand

390
00:16:31,206 --> 00:16:34,294
Like there's two camps.You're either for

391
00:16:34,294 --> 00:16:38,054
us or you're against us You're in or

392
00:16:38,054 --> 00:16:40,478
you're out You're either on the side of

393
00:16:40,478 --> 00:16:41,498
evil spiritual warfare or you're on

394
00:16:41,498 --> 00:16:43,018
there's side of the good The pastor who

395
00:16:43,018 --> 00:16:44,906
poor thing he's had all these people out.

396
00:16:44,906 --> 00:16:47,178
to get him and he's being accused and

397
00:16:47,178 --> 00:16:48,702
God's already forgiving him So be on the

398
00:16:48,702 --> 00:16:51,038
side of all the good things that are

399
00:16:51,038 --> 00:16:52,138
happening or be on the other side.So it

400
00:16:52,138 --> 00:16:53,902
makes you feel like you've done something

401
00:16:53,902 --> 00:16:56,046
wrong by trying to speak the truth out

402
00:16:56,046 --> 00:16:57,778
loud by saying what the crimes were by

403
00:16:57,778 --> 00:16:59,474
even talking to other people to find out

404
00:16:59,474 --> 00:17:02,050
are we safe in this faith community Are

405
00:17:02,050 --> 00:17:04,002
the children safe Is the staff safe

406
00:17:04,002 --> 00:17:05,714
Whoever the victim survivors were, are

407
00:17:05,714 --> 00:17:09,046
there more coming out Are there more that

408
00:17:09,046 --> 00:17:10,194
are vulnerable Those conversations get

409
00:17:10,194 --> 00:17:12,166
really shut down by someone saying God

410
00:17:12,166 --> 00:17:16,454
wants to do big things and needs to start

411
00:17:16,454 --> 00:17:18,166
with us or their spiritual warfare These

412
00:17:18,166 --> 00:17:20,938
kind of tactics work unfortunately really

413
00:17:20,938 --> 00:17:24,714
well to use fear a power by fear to imply

414
00:17:24,714 --> 00:17:26,634
that you are on the wrong side if you

415
00:17:26,634 --> 00:17:29,942
speak out and often I'll hear people say

416
00:17:29,942 --> 00:17:32,954
if you speak against the church a their

417
00:17:32,954 --> 00:17:34,334
really meaning is speaking against the

418
00:17:34,334 --> 00:17:36,382
pastor the Preda pastor in this case But

419
00:17:36,382 --> 00:17:39,166
the church is often not interpreted to be

420
00:17:39,166 --> 00:17:41,694
the victim survivors And that's just a

421
00:17:41,694 --> 00:17:43,466
very unfortunate thing because it's not

422
00:17:43,466 --> 00:17:46,354
only the untrue it really just shows that

423
00:17:46,354 --> 00:17:48,754
really the pastor has centered himself as

424
00:17:48,754 --> 00:17:51,314
the church as if that's him and the

425
00:17:51,314 --> 00:17:53,026
institution needs him to sustain itself

426
00:17:53,026 --> 00:17:56,526
The next one is we have to change this way

427
00:17:56,526 --> 00:17:59,126
of thinking that is judgmental.And I think

428
00:17:59,126 --> 00:18:01,814
that's really intended to just say you

429
00:18:01,814 --> 00:18:04,662
needs to get sustain line and don't talk

430
00:18:04,662 --> 00:18:06,006
about Bruno If you've seen that movie

431
00:18:06,006 --> 00:18:07,846
whether it's that family that's

432
00:18:07,846 --> 00:18:09,046
dysfunctional doesn't want to talk about

433
00:18:09,046 --> 00:18:09,846
the family member everybody's supposed to

434
00:18:09,846 --> 00:18:13,206
not mention or it's a church in a system

435
00:18:13,206 --> 00:18:16,406
where everybody doesn't want to talk a the

436
00:18:16,406 --> 00:18:17,706
situation that just silence the narrative

437
00:18:17,706 --> 00:18:20,106
so we can control the narrative and use a

438
00:18:20,106 --> 00:18:22,086
lot of a management to a it look like

439
00:18:22,086 --> 00:18:26,506
things are going to be fine And then the

440
00:18:26,506 --> 00:18:28,506
last one but certainly not the least and

441
00:18:28,506 --> 00:18:29,246
narrative very impactful a often

442
00:18:29,246 --> 00:18:31,438
devastating thing to hear is we are no one

443
00:18:31,438 --> 00:18:35,706
The only one who can judge is God And this

444
00:18:35,706 --> 00:18:37,314
know really I would categorize as worm

445
00:18:37,314 --> 00:18:40,066
theology.If you're not familiar with that

446
00:18:40,066 --> 00:18:42,226
just type that into twitter or somewhere

447
00:18:42,226 --> 00:18:43,730
Just google that Worm theology is really

448
00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:45,346
just I really believe really, baseless

449
00:18:45,346 --> 00:18:47,686
theology that makes human image bearers of

450
00:18:47,686 --> 00:18:50,226
God All of us see ourselves as just

451
00:18:50,226 --> 00:18:52,850
complete dirt Complete like a wretch right

452
00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:56,774
If you remember that song just as I am is

453
00:18:56,774 --> 00:18:59,286
that it Who saved bearers wretch like me

454
00:18:59,286 --> 00:19:02,934
Just completely worthless That is not I

455
00:19:02,934 --> 00:19:05,674
think an accurate a of what we are reading

456
00:19:05,674 --> 00:19:07,738
in the scriptures It's basically used in

457
00:19:07,738 --> 00:19:08,646
religious environments to control people

458
00:19:08,646 --> 00:19:13,166
to make them feel small and

459
00:19:13,166 --> 00:19:15,054
insignificant.And it allows

460
00:19:15,054 --> 00:19:16,974
authoritarianism to really thrive And so

461
00:19:16,974 --> 00:19:20,800
in this environment I would say there was

462
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,030
basically bit of authoritarianism that was

463
00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:26,814
a part of the grooming process that kept

464
00:19:26,814 --> 00:19:30,274
people down So this man is more elevated

465
00:19:30,274 --> 00:19:31,906
this predopastor is more elevated and can

466
00:19:31,906 --> 00:19:34,818
then have free rein to prey upon and abuse

467
00:19:34,818 --> 00:19:37,540
a many as the wanted So unfortunately I

468
00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:40,622
heard all these this week from a

469
00:19:40,622 --> 00:19:42,534
congregant whose predopastor had 35 counts

470
00:19:42,534 --> 00:19:45,106
of assault And it's heavy.It's a lot to

471
00:19:45,106 --> 00:19:47,254
take in And if you're in a faith

472
00:19:47,254 --> 00:19:48,966
environment right now listening to this

473
00:19:48,966 --> 00:19:50,794
where things seem not right things seem

474
00:19:50,794 --> 00:19:55,818
like there's a lot of red flags You're not

475
00:19:55,818 --> 00:19:57,898
sure how to process it Maybe a pastor has

476
00:19:57,898 --> 00:20:00,170
been accused of abuse or even arrested for

477
00:20:00,170 --> 00:20:03,050
crimes and you're hearing these narratives

478
00:20:03,050 --> 00:20:05,486
I just want to say I'm sad with you that

479
00:20:05,486 --> 00:20:07,822
that's happening and I hope you get pastor

480
00:20:07,822 --> 00:20:11,146
has place of safety.I hope you get to a

481
00:20:11,146 --> 00:20:14,126
place where your voice matters And I hope

482
00:20:14,126 --> 00:20:17,934
you can find the freedom and the love

483
00:20:17,934 --> 00:20:19,506
that's you deserve to thrive with your

484
00:20:19,506 --> 00:20:21,058
spirituality in place place where it's

485
00:20:21,058 --> 00:20:23,506
safe to be you a to speak the truth out

486
00:20:23,506 --> 00:20:26,626
loud And if you want to reach out over

487
00:20:26,626 --> 00:20:28,846
Twitter around this thread feel free to

488
00:20:28,846 --> 00:20:30,898
chime in I've really enjoyed kind of

489
00:20:30,898 --> 00:20:32,614
processing with some of you these things

490
00:20:32,614 --> 00:20:34,518
and hearing your perspective and hearing

491
00:20:34,518 --> 00:20:36,390
your narratives I think there is a really

492
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:37,766
beautiful community thread, sacred

493
00:20:37,766 --> 00:20:39,946
community of people who have survived this

494
00:20:39,946 --> 00:20:42,394
type of abuse either by watching this

495
00:20:42,394 --> 00:20:44,182
unfold things your community or

496
00:20:44,182 --> 00:20:46,746
experiencing it firsthand your yeah this

497
00:20:46,746 --> 00:20:49,482
conversation I just a to offer community,

498
00:20:49,482 --> 00:20:52,206
to you today because it's a heavy one and

499
00:20:52,206 --> 00:20:54,666
I know it's resonating with watching lot

500
00:20:54,666 --> 00:20:58,430
of you So feel free to reach out Once

501
00:20:58,430 --> 00:21:00,206
again join in our difference maker

502
00:21:00,206 --> 00:21:02,666
community on Patreon You can go today ww

503
00:21:02,666 --> 00:21:03,486
patreon.com a heavy world of difference

504
00:21:03,486 --> 00:21:04,914
and join today where we go deeper with

505
00:21:04,914 --> 00:21:06,994
Lance and his conversation last week

506
00:21:06,994 --> 00:21:09,026
You'll also find deeper episodes with all

507
00:21:09,026 --> 00:21:11,630
of the interviews I've done with different

508
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:13,746
guests there including Dr.Scott McKnight

509
00:21:13,746 --> 00:21:15,346
Laura Behringer Dr Wade Mullen different

510
00:21:15,346 --> 00:21:17,542
ones that we've had on there that have

511
00:21:17,542 --> 00:21:20,306
discussed some of these particular things

512
00:21:20,306 --> 00:21:21,426
and are making a difference interviews

513
00:21:21,426 --> 00:21:23,094
their own faith communities by writing and

514
00:21:23,094 --> 00:21:26,434
researching and speaking the truth out

515
00:21:26,434 --> 00:21:27,798
loud and helping people walk through this

516
00:21:27,798 --> 00:21:30,134
And once again if this has brought up some

517
00:21:30,134 --> 00:21:32,374
things for you that you feel like you need

518
00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:34,234
to talk to a professional Betterhelp is

519
00:21:34,234 --> 00:21:36,234
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520
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521
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522
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523
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So I highly recommend it to you And last

524
00:21:44,126 --> 00:21:49,806
but not least I would just say take a deep

525
00:21:49,806 --> 00:21:51,818
breath look around the room and notice

526
00:21:51,818 --> 00:21:52,942
five things that you see.Use some

527
00:21:52,942 --> 00:21:54,106
grounding techniques that will help you

528
00:21:54,106 --> 00:21:56,574
sort of process This is heavy It's hard to

529
00:21:56,574 --> 00:21:57,626
hold the terrible and look for the

530
00:21:57,626 --> 00:22:00,414
beautiful but we can hold them both And

531
00:22:00,414 --> 00:22:03,518
thank you for who you are and keep making

532
00:22:03,518 --> 00:22:04,510
that difference wherever you are Bye

533
00:22:04,510 --> 00:22:05,858
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534
00:22:05,858 --> 00:22:06,566
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535
00:22:06,566 --> 00:22:07,606
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536
00:22:07,606 --> 00:22:08,486
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537
00:22:08,486 --> 00:22:09,590
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538
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:10,998
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539
00:22:10,998 --> 00:22:11,846
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540
00:22:11,846 --> 00:22:12,710
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541
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:14,450
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