Making Money While Making a Difference: An Expert's Blueprint with Bessi Graham

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Welcome to the a World of Difference

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podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown and this is

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a podcast for those who are different and

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want to make a difference. This podcast is

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sponsored by Betterhelp. If you are a

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is www.betterhelp.com difference to get

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10% off your first month today. Today on

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the show from Melbourne, Australia, we

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have Bessie Graham on the show. Bessie is

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an award winning entrepreneur with over 20

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years experience of working with business

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owners, with governments and large funding

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bodies to bring doing good and making

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money back together. From grassroots of

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sitting in the dirt, working with business

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owners in the Pacific Islands to the

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United nations headquarters in Geneva,

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Bessie has seen it all and brings an

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unparalleled perspective on what it means

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to make things happen and change. So

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working with people who have quote unquote

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made it but haven't found fulfillment, she

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really helps them put their time, talent

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and treasure to work in ways that align

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with their values and allow them to create

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a legacy they can really be proud of.

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Bessie teaches people to quiet the noise

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of the demands and opinions of others that

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are always swirling around leaders in

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business, nonprofit, government. Wherever

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you're leading, you know this is true. And

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she wants to help people hear their own

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voice more clearly so they can contribute.

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From a place of authenticity. She removes

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the frustration and pressure that comes

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from living someone else's idea of success

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and really replaces it with a sense of

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flow and fulfillment that can only come

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when you tap into the fulfillment of who

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you are and who you are becoming. I'm so

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excited to have this conversation with

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Bessie today. So welcome to the show.

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Bessie Graham. Hi, Bessie. A warm welcome

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to you today in Melbourne, Australia.

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Thanks for joining us. Thank you. I'm glad

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that we could make the time zones work. I

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am, too, and Melbourne held a special

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place in my heart because I got to visit

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there years ago, and we were just talking

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about how it's so diverse, and I love that

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it's got great coffee. I saw Taylor Swift

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has been there, so it's all over

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everybody's feed. Oh, yeah. Biggest

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concert she's ever had. I saw that. Yeah.

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I got to take my daughter for her 16th

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birthday trip to Rio to see Taylor Swift.

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We were going to do a birthday trip

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anyway, and so it was cheaper to take her

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all the way to Rio than it was to see her

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20 minutes away at Levi Stadium because

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the tickets here were insane. It was like

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$800 for the nosebleed or like $20,000 for

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the front row. Oh, my. So it was actually

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cheaper to do $200 front row tickets in

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Rio and just use airline and hotel points,

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and we had a blast. Amazing. A lot of fun.

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You've created a memory. Yeah, absolutely.

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No, we keep seeing all the swifties having

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fun there in Melbourne, so it does make me

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want to take another trip there. Well, I'm

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excited to talk to you today because

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occasionally you come across these people

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who understand what it really means to

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work in business in a way to where it can

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be something of a purpose and not just

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making profit, although there's nothing

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wrong with making profit. Everybody's got

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to pay the bills, take care of their

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family. I mean, that's just what it means

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to live this human life. But you've got a

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couple of decades of experience in sort of

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bridging this gap between profit and

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purpose. So I'd love for you to kind of

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share. Is there, like, a moment or an

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experience that sort of initially ignited

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your passions for sort of this doing good

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and making money together? It's

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interesting because when you use words

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like purpose or meaning, any of those

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types of aspects, I would say that for me,

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it goes right back to being a kid in that

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there was always this sense in me of not

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fitting into neat little boxes or what the

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expectations were. I was not one neat

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thing. I used to always say, even when I

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was a kid, that I was a walking

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contradiction. I would have really

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different parts of myself that felt

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equally true and that other people might

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find confusing. And so in finding this

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world of being able to, through my career,

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do what I talk about as merging money and

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meaning, or helping people do good and

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make money, that allowed me to feel like I

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could bring that fullness of those

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different parts of myself. And so it's

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been ever present in my adult life and

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career. But I would say that it's the

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outworking of me just being me, which is a

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beautiful opportunity. And to have found

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that piece, which really does, I think,

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allow you to sustain something, because

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when you're trying to do something that's

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at ods or where there's some internal

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dissonance for you, you might be able to

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do it for a while through sheer force of

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will, but you end up getting exhausted and

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worn down. Yeah, I think when somebody

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brings their full, authentic self to their

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career, it's a whole different way of

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leading and living. And so one of the

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themes of our podcast is bringing our

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differences around the table, making sure

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we know each of us has unique differences.

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That's what it means to be human. And so I

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know that your career has taken know

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outside of Australia, you've done some

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pretty incredible things in your career.

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And so I'd love to know how that sort of

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informed you as a leader and the work that

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you do. What kind of an impact did living

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abroad have on your career and yourself?

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Yeah, so I would say that a little bit

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like you, having experienced different

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cultures, helps to have that bigger, more

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expansive idea of what the world is and

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different perspectives, and to not be sort

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of sheltered or exist in such a way that

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your assumptions are that everyone thinks

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the same way, everyone experiences

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situations in the same way. And that began

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for me, more from a childhood perspective,

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related to the issues around social

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justice. So my mum in particular always

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opened our eyes to the fact that you

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shouldn't compare yourself to the people

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directly around you, but to the people in

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the rest of the world. So even though

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within our circles we would have been the

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people with the least money, she would

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constantly say to us, if you have running

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water and electricity, you are within the

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wealthiest people in the world. So have

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some perspective. Right? So she was always

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opening, there's nothing wrong with

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looking around and comparing. In fact, it

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can give you perspective, but you need to

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be quite intentional about who you're

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comparing yourself to so that that kind of

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occurs. So there was always that curiosity

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and I suppose the expansive aspect of

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others perspectives. I then had the

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beautiful opportunity of, when I finished

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high school, I said I was going to take

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one year off to travel. I ended up not

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going to university till four years after

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and did lots of traveling, went to a whole

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bunch of different countries. And that set

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in motion, I suppose, the perspective that

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now, no matter what happens or who I work

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with or what you see on the news, I know

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people in it would now be about 62

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different countries that I have people who

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I genuinely know and care about, and that

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connects you to the world in a different

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way. And that, I think, is one of the

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pieces that certainly in your work, in my

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work, it helps us when we work with

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leaders to get them to do the zooming out

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and zooming in. They're like, take a

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different perspective, think about this

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from a different angle. So that sort of

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has been consistently something I very

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consciously make sure is part of my work,

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because like you, I have a deep respect

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for diversity. Not in a token way, and not

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trying to tick a box and kind of say, oh,

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who's not in this conversation? And we

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need to fill certain categories, but

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simply from the perspective of it is the

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way that we will. If we have people with

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different experiences of life, different

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ways they look at things, it's a much

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broader conversation than just gender.

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It's a much broader conversation than

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religion. It's about our ways of looking

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at the world and who we are. I want as

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many of those voices in a conversation as

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possible. Yeah, absolutely. It does make

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us better as leaders. We make better

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decisions, especially if in business, we

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have a product that we want to make

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available to people globally. We want

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perspectives on how is that product going

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to land in Melbourne, Australia, versus

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somewhere in Africa versus somewhere in

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the United States. All of those

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perspectives matter. But also, business

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doesn't have to just be where we treat

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people like factory workers. We do have

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factories that produce products, but we

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don't have to treat the people that way

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like cogs in a wheel. And so what are some

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ways that leadership can be a little more

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human and take into account purpose, even

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inside the workplace for people? I think a

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lot of it comes back to the role that a

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leader needs to take seriously themselves,

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of being able to pause long enough to

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start to unpack or maybe bring to the

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surface some of those unconscious beliefs

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they actually have about the purpose of

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business. Because so many people, if you

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were just in a conversation, it was on the

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weekend, and you were all at an event

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together, they might, on the surface,

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straight away say, yeah, I totally agree

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with you. Business is far more than just

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making money. So they might, at the

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surface level, be excited and say they

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agree with you. But when you dig a little

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deeper into the way people are making

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decisions, how they're spending money,

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what they're prioritizing, there is this

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deep unconscious belief that has taken

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hold, particularly since the 70s when

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Friedman brought in this idea of

264
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shareholder primacy. So the maximization

265
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of profit started to be spoken about as if

266
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it was the law. It was always true and

267
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always would be, and yet it actually

268
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wasn't. It's not the roots of business.

269
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It's not commerce, trade, bartering. These

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are deeply human things that we have

271
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always done. But what I find is the first

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step for us as leaders is to actually

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start to uncover where is there a

274
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disconnect that actually my behavior, my

275
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priorities, my decision making is

276
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demonstrating that I do actually at least

277
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have a part of me that thinks business is

278
00:12:15,606 --> 00:12:17,890
about how do I make as much money as

279
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possible and treat a whole bunch of

280
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uncomfortable things or expensive things

281
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as an externality and not the problem of

282
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the business. And once we start there with

283
00:12:28,746 --> 00:12:31,198
that mindset piece and the beliefs about

284
00:12:31,198 --> 00:12:33,946
the purpose of business, then a whole

285
00:12:33,946 --> 00:12:36,254
bunch of other conversations can happen.

286
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But unless we start with that piece, we're

287
00:12:40,382 --> 00:12:43,700
never really having the same conversation

288
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because you can do a whole lot of work

289
00:12:45,874 --> 00:12:50,242
with a leader in their business, and then

290
00:12:50,242 --> 00:12:53,698
a particularly important decision or a

291
00:12:53,698 --> 00:12:56,446
difficult situation will emerge and

292
00:12:56,446 --> 00:12:58,162
suddenly I'll hear people saying things

293
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like, well, that's lovely, Bessie, but I

294
00:13:00,326 --> 00:13:02,678
am running a business here, not a charity.

295
00:13:02,678 --> 00:13:04,818
So we're going to have to put that on

296
00:13:04,818 --> 00:13:07,126
pause and get back to it. When things go

297
00:13:07,126 --> 00:13:10,362
back to normal or when things calm down,

298
00:13:10,362 --> 00:13:12,506
those types of comments demonstrate to me

299
00:13:12,506 --> 00:13:15,146
that you're still seeing the contribution

300
00:13:15,146 --> 00:13:19,338
or the meaning side as being a nice to

301
00:13:19,338 --> 00:13:21,914
have when times are good and when you have

302
00:13:21,914 --> 00:13:25,162
excess cash or time in the business and it

303
00:13:25,162 --> 00:13:28,174
hasn't actually been integrated into how

304
00:13:28,174 --> 00:13:29,902
you think about the decisions you're

305
00:13:29,902 --> 00:13:36,126
making in those core business. Good. You

306
00:13:36,126 --> 00:13:38,974
know, one of the things I train on in

307
00:13:38,974 --> 00:13:40,962
leadership summits that I conduct in the

308
00:13:40,962 --> 00:13:42,606
company that I work for here in Silicon

309
00:13:42,606 --> 00:13:44,046
Valley, and I go all around the world, the

310
00:13:44,046 --> 00:13:46,494
UK, I'm about to head to Taiwan and

311
00:13:46,494 --> 00:13:48,022
wherever people are in the world, it's the

312
00:13:48,022 --> 00:13:50,614
same. When we're listening to people,

313
00:13:50,614 --> 00:13:52,498
whether it's our direct reports, our

314
00:13:52,498 --> 00:13:56,454
peers, our boss, our family members, we're

315
00:13:56,454 --> 00:13:58,098
usually listening for three things, and

316
00:13:58,098 --> 00:14:00,306
that's facts, feelings and values. And

317
00:14:00,306 --> 00:14:01,994
you're talking a lot about values and how

318
00:14:01,994 --> 00:14:04,166
those impact business leaders and

319
00:14:04,166 --> 00:14:05,578
decisions that people make. It's something

320
00:14:05,578 --> 00:14:07,894
we don't think about. We don't even

321
00:14:07,894 --> 00:14:09,434
consciously often think about our values,

322
00:14:09,434 --> 00:14:12,006
and we often don't say them out loud. But

323
00:14:12,006 --> 00:14:14,238
listening for what motivates people in

324
00:14:14,238 --> 00:14:17,550
business or in social enterprise is really

325
00:14:17,550 --> 00:14:19,166
important, because just like you said,

326
00:14:19,166 --> 00:14:21,082
when it comes down to making hard

327
00:14:21,082 --> 00:14:22,862
decisions, people will make those based on

328
00:14:22,862 --> 00:14:25,806
their values. So for you and for others

329
00:14:25,806 --> 00:14:28,734
that you work with, how do your values

330
00:14:28,734 --> 00:14:30,126
influence the way you live and make

331
00:14:30,126 --> 00:14:32,578
decisions as a leader in business? And how

332
00:14:32,578 --> 00:14:34,420
do you encourage people to do that as

333
00:14:34,420 --> 00:14:37,822
well? So, for me, they massively

334
00:14:37,822 --> 00:14:40,226
influence. And when I work with people,

335
00:14:40,226 --> 00:14:42,214
I'm always trying to get them to a place

336
00:14:42,214 --> 00:14:44,166
where they are a massive influence in

337
00:14:44,166 --> 00:14:46,582
their life. Because again, it's these

338
00:14:46,582 --> 00:14:48,122
making something conscious, making

339
00:14:48,122 --> 00:14:50,662
something explicit that is already driving

340
00:14:50,662 --> 00:14:52,874
behavior. Often you just aren't aware of

341
00:14:52,874 --> 00:14:57,990
where that's coming from. So, values is a

342
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:59,910
conversation, particularly in business

343
00:14:59,910 --> 00:15:02,822
settings, that is often done in such a

344
00:15:02,822 --> 00:15:04,734
superficial way that leaders will roll

345
00:15:04,734 --> 00:15:06,286
their eyes. When you say you want to have

346
00:15:06,286 --> 00:15:08,686
a conversation about values, they think,

347
00:15:08,686 --> 00:15:10,542
oh my goodness, this is going to be

348
00:15:10,542 --> 00:15:12,454
another one of those completely

349
00:15:12,454 --> 00:15:13,906
meaningless things where there's a poster

350
00:15:13,906 --> 00:15:16,850
on the wall. My favorite ones are always

351
00:15:16,850 --> 00:15:20,722
the integrity, honesty and the eagle on

352
00:15:20,722 --> 00:15:26,334
those types of ideas. And so we need to do

353
00:15:26,334 --> 00:15:29,094
some unlearning there of, okay, people

354
00:15:29,094 --> 00:15:31,314
have been talking about something like

355
00:15:31,314 --> 00:15:33,526
values in a way that didn't actually have

356
00:15:33,526 --> 00:15:37,334
the depth to it. When you and I are

357
00:15:37,334 --> 00:15:39,050
talking about it in relation to this

358
00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:42,234
question and how it's actually informing

359
00:15:42,234 --> 00:15:44,586
your decisions, how it is influencing the

360
00:15:44,586 --> 00:15:49,418
way you live, that is, values done in a

361
00:15:49,418 --> 00:15:53,214
far more meaningful or nuanced way. And so

362
00:15:53,214 --> 00:15:55,146
I always think about values from the

363
00:15:55,146 --> 00:15:57,934
perspective of Simon Sinek talked about

364
00:15:57,934 --> 00:16:01,002
that our values are who we are at our

365
00:16:01,002 --> 00:16:04,498
natural best. And I think that that is

366
00:16:04,498 --> 00:16:06,740
true. But I think that's only the starting

367
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:09,554
place in particularly the last two and a

368
00:16:09,554 --> 00:16:13,966
bit decades. The way that I have made

369
00:16:13,966 --> 00:16:17,400
values really central in my life and in my

370
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,902
work is to realize that actually by

371
00:16:20,902 --> 00:16:23,894
getting clear on what our core values are

372
00:16:23,894 --> 00:16:27,366
and then very intentionally cultivating

373
00:16:27,366 --> 00:16:29,642
what are the conditions that allow me to

374
00:16:29,642 --> 00:16:32,874
live those things out. How do I need to

375
00:16:32,874 --> 00:16:35,610
set up my environment or my relationships,

376
00:16:35,610 --> 00:16:39,514
or the time I create to be able to live in

377
00:16:39,514 --> 00:16:43,006
that space? That then means I can show up

378
00:16:43,006 --> 00:16:46,666
at my natural best, because all of those

379
00:16:46,666 --> 00:16:48,698
aspects around the environments we're

380
00:16:48,698 --> 00:16:50,526
creating, those conditions we cultivate

381
00:16:50,526 --> 00:16:53,966
for ourself, set us up to either be able

382
00:16:53,966 --> 00:16:55,922
to live in alignment with those values or

383
00:16:55,922 --> 00:16:58,002
not. So I think there's a really rich,

384
00:16:58,002 --> 00:16:59,938
much longer conversation than we can have

385
00:16:59,938 --> 00:17:03,234
today about how we identify those things

386
00:17:03,234 --> 00:17:06,994
and really name them, but they have to be

387
00:17:06,994 --> 00:17:11,366
aspects that do speak to how we behave. So

388
00:17:11,366 --> 00:17:13,158
there needs to be action related to them.

389
00:17:13,158 --> 00:17:16,390
They need to inform our decisions. And I

390
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:19,622
think when we get really clear on those

391
00:17:19,622 --> 00:17:22,662
and always have them top of mind, they

392
00:17:22,662 --> 00:17:24,454
become one of the filters we use in our

393
00:17:24,454 --> 00:17:27,066
decision making to be able to go, is this

394
00:17:27,066 --> 00:17:29,338
in alignment or is it not? Because most of

395
00:17:29,338 --> 00:17:31,206
the time when I see leaders getting

396
00:17:31,206 --> 00:17:33,002
exhausted and overwhelmed, particularly

397
00:17:33,002 --> 00:17:35,374
now, and you would see this in your work

398
00:17:35,374 --> 00:17:37,854
with the fast paced changes that we're all

399
00:17:37,854 --> 00:17:40,574
having to deal with, if you don't have

400
00:17:40,574 --> 00:17:42,766
some kind of touchstone or guide to come

401
00:17:42,766 --> 00:17:47,474
back to that actually says, yes, this sits

402
00:17:47,474 --> 00:17:49,186
well with me. This is in alignment with

403
00:17:49,186 --> 00:17:52,194
who we are as an organization. You can

404
00:17:52,194 --> 00:17:54,722
talk about integrity and alignment all you

405
00:17:54,722 --> 00:17:56,786
want, but if you haven't actually

406
00:17:56,786 --> 00:18:01,030
articulated. Align to what? Moving towards

407
00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:03,846
what? That clarity is the starting place.

408
00:18:03,846 --> 00:18:07,442
So I think at our own peril, we ignore or

409
00:18:07,442 --> 00:18:10,646
make simplistic lists of what our

410
00:18:10,646 --> 00:18:13,354
company's core values are. It's a much

411
00:18:13,354 --> 00:18:16,938
more powerful conversation. Absolutely.

412
00:18:16,938 --> 00:18:19,786
Yeah. And some companies will do even a

413
00:18:19,786 --> 00:18:21,278
really great job, like you said, having it

414
00:18:21,278 --> 00:18:25,614
on the wall, making it visible on their

415
00:18:25,614 --> 00:18:27,822
website, having it constantly stated in

416
00:18:27,822 --> 00:18:30,106
certain meetings, but it really kind of

417
00:18:30,106 --> 00:18:34,398
falls apart if they mention one of their

418
00:18:34,398 --> 00:18:37,858
values is maybe inclusion, and then at the

419
00:18:37,858 --> 00:18:40,478
end of the day, they're doing nothing in

420
00:18:40,478 --> 00:18:44,338
recruiting to make sure job requests are

421
00:18:44,338 --> 00:18:46,082
going to appeal to somebody who's

422
00:18:46,082 --> 00:18:47,666
different than everybody they have, or

423
00:18:47,666 --> 00:18:50,440
there's favoritism still in the process,

424
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,638
or everybody hires people they know from

425
00:18:53,638 --> 00:18:55,446
the same university where you get this

426
00:18:55,446 --> 00:18:57,974
kind of group think. And so you can say

427
00:18:57,974 --> 00:18:59,722
you value that, but at the end of the day,

428
00:18:59,722 --> 00:19:02,966
if decisions aren't made based on it, it

429
00:19:02,966 --> 00:19:05,420
doesn't really change. So kind of help us

430
00:19:05,420 --> 00:19:08,726
understand maybe sort of this decision

431
00:19:08,726 --> 00:19:11,142
cascade, how it can unlock clarity and

432
00:19:11,142 --> 00:19:14,986
decisiveness, maybe even around values. So

433
00:19:14,986 --> 00:19:17,614
what's interesting, if people wanted to

434
00:19:17,614 --> 00:19:19,486
dig into what you were just speaking about

435
00:19:19,486 --> 00:19:21,594
a little bit more, the best author that

436
00:19:21,594 --> 00:19:23,886
I've always really loved reading around

437
00:19:23,886 --> 00:19:26,610
this topic is Patrick Lenchoni, and in his

438
00:19:26,610 --> 00:19:29,682
book, the advantage, he talks about four

439
00:19:29,682 --> 00:19:31,566
different types of values. And some of the

440
00:19:31,566 --> 00:19:32,994
pieces that you've spoken about there that

441
00:19:32,994 --> 00:19:37,326
can end up undermining our authority or

442
00:19:37,326 --> 00:19:39,554
people's respect or trust in us as a

443
00:19:39,554 --> 00:19:41,878
leader is when we take something that is

444
00:19:41,878 --> 00:19:44,246
what he would call an aspirational value,

445
00:19:44,246 --> 00:19:46,662
we might know that we need that as a

446
00:19:46,662 --> 00:19:49,478
company to succeed in the future, or we

447
00:19:49,478 --> 00:19:51,594
might want that to be part of our culture

448
00:19:51,594 --> 00:19:55,034
and we call it a core value, we name it as

449
00:19:55,034 --> 00:19:57,786
that. But there's this disconnect for our

450
00:19:57,786 --> 00:20:01,334
customers or our team where they're, hmm.

451
00:20:01,334 --> 00:20:03,674
Bessie's saying this, but every

452
00:20:03,674 --> 00:20:05,966
interaction I have, my experience with her

453
00:20:05,966 --> 00:20:08,414
or this company is actually the opposite.

454
00:20:08,414 --> 00:20:10,526
And now, even if I'm not conscious of it,

455
00:20:10,526 --> 00:20:13,306
I start to mistrust her because I'm

456
00:20:13,306 --> 00:20:16,238
hearing one thing and seeing another. And

457
00:20:16,238 --> 00:20:18,914
so reading some of Lent, Joni's work, and

458
00:20:18,914 --> 00:20:20,686
even if people don't want to get the book,

459
00:20:20,686 --> 00:20:22,514
there's a Harvard Business Review article.

460
00:20:22,514 --> 00:20:24,146
Maybe I'll share the links with you and

461
00:20:24,146 --> 00:20:26,386
you can pop it in the notes. But that's a

462
00:20:26,386 --> 00:20:28,206
good place for people to start to pull

463
00:20:28,206 --> 00:20:30,966
apart some of these things, because we

464
00:20:30,966 --> 00:20:32,454
need to have tools, whether it's something

465
00:20:32,454 --> 00:20:34,066
like you've mentioned, the decision

466
00:20:34,066 --> 00:20:36,406
cascade, which my partner and I created

467
00:20:36,406 --> 00:20:38,386
and have been using for decades, or

468
00:20:38,386 --> 00:20:40,410
whether it's some frameworks around

469
00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:43,802
different types of values as leaders,

470
00:20:43,802 --> 00:20:46,006
these types of tools. So in ancient

471
00:20:46,006 --> 00:20:47,782
Greece, they always talked about them as

472
00:20:47,782 --> 00:20:50,234
heuristics. So thinking tools, when we

473
00:20:50,234 --> 00:20:53,454
have these to call on, it allows us to be

474
00:20:53,454 --> 00:20:55,326
more effective in our leadership, because

475
00:20:55,326 --> 00:20:58,206
on the fly, when a situation happens, you

476
00:20:58,206 --> 00:21:00,974
have a preformed structure in your mind of

477
00:21:00,974 --> 00:21:04,254
how to walk through that. So from decision

478
00:21:04,254 --> 00:21:05,826
making and when it comes to something like

479
00:21:05,826 --> 00:21:09,794
a decision cascade sequence is important.

480
00:21:09,794 --> 00:21:12,782
And what I see myself doing and other

481
00:21:12,782 --> 00:21:15,300
leaders is we're the types of people who

482
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:18,466
are. Our tendency is toward action. So we

483
00:21:18,466 --> 00:21:20,918
want to jump in. We see an opportunity. We

484
00:21:20,918 --> 00:21:22,486
want to jump in and build. We want to jump

485
00:21:22,486 --> 00:21:26,514
in and act. Part of what we do by using a

486
00:21:26,514 --> 00:21:28,714
decision cascade is to actually start to

487
00:21:28,714 --> 00:21:32,442
pull a situation or an opportunity apart

488
00:21:32,442 --> 00:21:35,306
and make a very conscious decision of what

489
00:21:35,306 --> 00:21:38,214
is the first step. So what's that first

490
00:21:38,214 --> 00:21:40,362
overarching decision that everything else

491
00:21:40,362 --> 00:21:43,806
needs to flow from that. And then once you

492
00:21:43,806 --> 00:21:45,966
go, okay, this is the primary decision.

493
00:21:45,966 --> 00:21:48,158
This is the secondary level of decisions

494
00:21:48,158 --> 00:21:51,582
and the tertiary decisions. What you are

495
00:21:51,582 --> 00:21:54,266
able to do from a leadership perspective

496
00:21:54,266 --> 00:21:57,794
is have a far smoother experience through

497
00:21:57,794 --> 00:22:00,034
your decision making. And also, when

498
00:22:00,034 --> 00:22:02,526
things aren't going well, you know how to

499
00:22:02,526 --> 00:22:04,498
unpack it and figure out where is the

500
00:22:04,498 --> 00:22:07,214
problem occurring. Rather than just being

501
00:22:07,214 --> 00:22:08,454
reactionary and going right, the whole

502
00:22:08,454 --> 00:22:10,722
thing doesn't work. We have to start from

503
00:22:10,722 --> 00:22:13,622
scratch. So I'll sort of give you a quick

504
00:22:13,622 --> 00:22:16,360
example through that. Part of what happens

505
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,626
is if we as a business, have an

506
00:22:19,626 --> 00:22:21,706
opportunity to go into a new location, and

507
00:22:21,706 --> 00:22:24,566
we just jump straight into saying, great,

508
00:22:24,566 --> 00:22:27,820
we've got this opportunity to set up an

509
00:22:27,820 --> 00:22:30,602
office. I think you mentioned Indonesia

510
00:22:30,602 --> 00:22:32,746
before. So let's say we're going to go to

511
00:22:32,746 --> 00:22:35,374
Indonesia and we suddenly start to look

512
00:22:35,374 --> 00:22:38,366
for real estate and we've signed a lease

513
00:22:38,366 --> 00:22:42,206
for an office. We have made something that

514
00:22:42,206 --> 00:22:44,838
should have been a tertiary know, three

515
00:22:44,838 --> 00:22:47,534
levels down. We've made that the primary

516
00:22:47,534 --> 00:22:49,362
decision because we've now created all

517
00:22:49,362 --> 00:22:51,774
these constraints because we've signed a

518
00:22:51,774 --> 00:22:53,714
lease for a certain period of time in a

519
00:22:53,714 --> 00:22:56,914
very specific location without the other

520
00:22:56,914 --> 00:22:59,880
pieces being in place. And so from that

521
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,062
place, a whole bunch of decisions are no

522
00:23:03,062 --> 00:23:06,294
longer open to us and we have restricted

523
00:23:06,294 --> 00:23:08,834
what can come from there without having to

524
00:23:08,834 --> 00:23:11,570
undo a lot of things. The decision cascade

525
00:23:11,570 --> 00:23:14,154
is that piece that allows us to go back to

526
00:23:14,154 --> 00:23:15,946
something like our core values or back to

527
00:23:15,946 --> 00:23:17,930
our vision statement as an organization.

528
00:23:17,930 --> 00:23:20,954
And, ah, an opportunity's opened up, we

529
00:23:20,954 --> 00:23:23,066
could expand into Indonesia. What are the

530
00:23:23,066 --> 00:23:24,670
things we've been talking about as a

531
00:23:24,670 --> 00:23:27,438
company? What are our core values? If, for

532
00:23:27,438 --> 00:23:29,546
example, your team have been saying that

533
00:23:29,546 --> 00:23:31,306
you've been growing too fast and people

534
00:23:31,306 --> 00:23:32,926
aren't seeing their families enough and

535
00:23:32,926 --> 00:23:35,538
they want to travel less, you might need

536
00:23:35,538 --> 00:23:37,586
to have a conversation that says, while

537
00:23:37,586 --> 00:23:39,746
this is exciting, now is not the time for

538
00:23:39,746 --> 00:23:43,620
us to expand geographically. So this type

539
00:23:43,620 --> 00:23:48,294
of way of approaching your decisions is a

540
00:23:48,294 --> 00:23:51,954
much more helpful way, as I said, to not

541
00:23:51,954 --> 00:23:55,154
charge down a course and end up putting

542
00:23:55,154 --> 00:23:56,786
yourselves in positions you could have

543
00:23:56,786 --> 00:24:00,842
avoided simply by thinking differently.

544
00:24:00,842 --> 00:24:04,266
So, good. Yeah. There's this, like saying,

545
00:24:04,266 --> 00:24:06,166
I hear some Americans say it's getting the

546
00:24:06,166 --> 00:24:10,182
cart before the horse. Yes. It's just the

547
00:24:10,182 --> 00:24:12,474
priorities. You got to start with the main

548
00:24:12,474 --> 00:24:13,946
idea, like, what are we about here? And

549
00:24:13,946 --> 00:24:15,374
that's what you're leading people to,

550
00:24:15,374 --> 00:24:17,886
whether it's in business or nonprofit. Why

551
00:24:17,886 --> 00:24:20,302
are you making these decisions and not

552
00:24:20,302 --> 00:24:22,894
just having. Well, that could happen, but

553
00:24:22,894 --> 00:24:24,834
just because I tell my teenager, just

554
00:24:24,834 --> 00:24:27,682
because you can, doesn't mean you should,

555
00:24:27,682 --> 00:24:30,306
right, exactly. Yeah, you've worked. Even

556
00:24:30,306 --> 00:24:32,706
if you pause and you say no, it doesn't

557
00:24:32,706 --> 00:24:34,882
mean you're saying no forever. It just

558
00:24:34,882 --> 00:24:39,254
means not now. Totally no, 100%. You've

559
00:24:39,254 --> 00:24:40,818
worked, though, not just in Australia,

560
00:24:40,818 --> 00:24:42,518
you've worked in some other places, kind

561
00:24:42,518 --> 00:24:44,694
of more on a grassroots level, also kind

562
00:24:44,694 --> 00:24:48,758
of more prestigious. Know where you were

563
00:24:48,758 --> 00:24:51,066
with the United Nations a bit. And so I'd

564
00:24:51,066 --> 00:24:54,150
love to know some of the common

565
00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:55,818
misconceptions maybe that you find around

566
00:24:55,818 --> 00:24:57,686
kind of social entrepreneurship that

567
00:24:57,686 --> 00:24:59,126
you've encountered in these different

568
00:24:59,126 --> 00:25:03,030
kinds of settings. Yeah. So I've very

569
00:25:03,030 --> 00:25:05,442
intentionally always gone to both of those

570
00:25:05,442 --> 00:25:08,094
extremes. I like to work at the level of

571
00:25:08,094 --> 00:25:10,282
looking at the whole system. So big

572
00:25:10,282 --> 00:25:11,566
international funders as you mentioned,

573
00:25:11,566 --> 00:25:14,094
like the United nations or I do a lot of

574
00:25:14,094 --> 00:25:17,554
advisory work with government. That piece

575
00:25:17,554 --> 00:25:20,098
is important and I think often missed in

576
00:25:20,098 --> 00:25:22,062
the world of something like social

577
00:25:22,062 --> 00:25:25,626
entrepreneurship or nonprofits, where it

578
00:25:25,626 --> 00:25:29,702
stays grassroots and often fails to look

579
00:25:29,702 --> 00:25:32,134
up at that broader system and understand,

580
00:25:32,134 --> 00:25:33,446
okay, what are the constraints, what are

581
00:25:33,446 --> 00:25:35,314
the opportunities, what's happening,

582
00:25:35,314 --> 00:25:38,634
what's our part within the system? And so

583
00:25:38,634 --> 00:25:40,922
for me, it's an intentional decision to

584
00:25:40,922 --> 00:25:43,670
always be someone who bridges those two

585
00:25:43,670 --> 00:25:46,794
worlds. I don't want to just be systemic

586
00:25:46,794 --> 00:25:50,154
and big picture and lose touch with what's

587
00:25:50,154 --> 00:25:51,326
actually happening on the ground and what

588
00:25:51,326 --> 00:25:54,334
the reality is. So I always talk to people

589
00:25:54,334 --> 00:25:58,814
about, I'm very conscious of making sure I

590
00:25:58,814 --> 00:26:01,726
have enough interactions, one on one, with

591
00:26:01,726 --> 00:26:04,026
individual founders, or one of the pieces

592
00:26:04,026 --> 00:26:06,706
that's often in my bio that is important

593
00:26:06,706 --> 00:26:08,734
to me is that I've spent a lot of time

594
00:26:08,734 --> 00:26:11,470
sitting in the dirt across the Pacific

595
00:26:11,470 --> 00:26:13,346
islands, whether it's with coconut farmers

596
00:26:13,346 --> 00:26:15,474
or on coffee plantations or whatever that

597
00:26:15,474 --> 00:26:19,174
piece is. That means when I'm then acting

598
00:26:19,174 --> 00:26:21,506
as an impact investor, or I have my

599
00:26:21,506 --> 00:26:22,870
philanthropic hat on, or I'm doing

600
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:25,654
government advisory work, while someone

601
00:26:25,654 --> 00:26:28,102
else might be talking academically about

602
00:26:28,102 --> 00:26:31,066
how something happens, I can say, well,

603
00:26:31,066 --> 00:26:32,758
actually, when I was in the back of a

604
00:26:32,758 --> 00:26:36,394
truck traveling from the farm to the port,

605
00:26:36,394 --> 00:26:38,246
I know that these are the challenges

606
00:26:38,246 --> 00:26:41,674
someone's seeing. So I would say, in

607
00:26:41,674 --> 00:26:43,422
answer to your question, sort of some of

608
00:26:43,422 --> 00:26:46,062
those patterns that I think are really

609
00:26:46,062 --> 00:26:50,042
important for all of us as leaders to push

610
00:26:50,042 --> 00:26:52,094
ourselves outside our comfort zones and

611
00:26:52,094 --> 00:26:56,034
really ensure we work into the way we lead

612
00:26:56,034 --> 00:26:58,094
is to not get into, you mentioned

613
00:26:58,094 --> 00:27:01,250
groupthink before, to not just sit in such

614
00:27:01,250 --> 00:27:02,926
small, closed circles where everyone

615
00:27:02,926 --> 00:27:04,862
thinks the same way or has the same

616
00:27:04,862 --> 00:27:06,966
perspective, but to actively put ourselves

617
00:27:06,966 --> 00:27:10,966
in situations where we say, interesting.

618
00:27:10,966 --> 00:27:12,680
Now that I have that little piece of

619
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,902
information, it might seem random at the

620
00:27:14,902 --> 00:27:17,446
moment, but it will come in handy later.

621
00:27:17,446 --> 00:27:20,134
So those types of things have always been

622
00:27:20,134 --> 00:27:22,666
useful for me and then played out, as I

623
00:27:22,666 --> 00:27:25,734
said later, when I've been in a situation

624
00:27:25,734 --> 00:27:29,050
investing in a company, in a country, and

625
00:27:29,050 --> 00:27:31,414
someone will use a certain piece of

626
00:27:31,414 --> 00:27:33,410
evidence to demonstrate social impact. And

627
00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:36,366
I'll say, well, I now know the questions

628
00:27:36,366 --> 00:27:38,494
to ask, because I'll say, so, when you

629
00:27:38,494 --> 00:27:40,702
talk to that farmer, did they actually

630
00:27:40,702 --> 00:27:42,986
speak English? So when you've got this

631
00:27:42,986 --> 00:27:45,234
feedback or you say that they've signed

632
00:27:45,234 --> 00:27:48,686
this and given who signed it and who

633
00:27:48,686 --> 00:27:50,820
explained it or translated it to them,

634
00:27:50,820 --> 00:27:53,922
because I know the questions to ask,

635
00:27:53,922 --> 00:27:56,166
because I understand both the grassroots

636
00:27:56,166 --> 00:27:59,906
and the systemic, and I think as leaders,

637
00:27:59,906 --> 00:28:04,726
we're not paid to just show up and be on

638
00:28:04,726 --> 00:28:07,926
the clock. We're paid for how we think,

639
00:28:07,926 --> 00:28:10,106
how we see the world, what opportunities

640
00:28:10,106 --> 00:28:12,762
do we spot, or where do we see risk that

641
00:28:12,762 --> 00:28:16,202
someone else doesn't see? And the best way

642
00:28:16,202 --> 00:28:20,086
to bring the most value as a leader is to

643
00:28:20,086 --> 00:28:23,194
expand what you understand and how you can

644
00:28:23,194 --> 00:28:24,366
bridge different worlds, because that's

645
00:28:24,366 --> 00:28:26,826
what innovation is. Two previously

646
00:28:26,826 --> 00:28:29,022
unconnected things now connect them.

647
00:28:29,022 --> 00:28:31,674
Something doesn't have to be completely

648
00:28:31,674 --> 00:28:33,566
unique and never thought of before, but

649
00:28:33,566 --> 00:28:35,570
you're wanting to do that, bringing things

650
00:28:35,570 --> 00:28:38,898
together that were not seen. Huh. Imagine

651
00:28:38,898 --> 00:28:42,674
what would happen if we combined those.

652
00:28:42,674 --> 00:28:47,826
So, good. Yeah. It takes me back to my

653
00:28:47,826 --> 00:28:49,718
own. I also had an experience with the UN,

654
00:28:49,718 --> 00:28:51,126
where I worked as sort of a liaison with

655
00:28:51,126 --> 00:28:53,126
them in the indonesian tsunami, because I

656
00:28:53,126 --> 00:28:54,646
was working in community development in

657
00:28:54,646 --> 00:28:57,846
that area when the tsunami hit that. So,

658
00:28:57,846 --> 00:28:59,178
you know, you have people from all over

659
00:28:59,178 --> 00:29:03,014
the world, big ngos coming in, and the

660
00:29:03,014 --> 00:29:07,194
coordination efforts were really just like

661
00:29:07,194 --> 00:29:09,066
a ginormous effort, like I've never seen,

662
00:29:09,066 --> 00:29:10,926
because it was such a large disaster and

663
00:29:10,926 --> 00:29:14,174
had so little infrastructure to begin with

664
00:29:14,174 --> 00:29:17,120
to sustain anything like that kind of

665
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,246
world group of people coming in from all

666
00:29:19,246 --> 00:29:22,766
these places. But the value of that was, I

667
00:29:22,766 --> 00:29:25,758
worked for a grassroots, indonesian based

668
00:29:25,758 --> 00:29:27,890
nonprofit, so I was fluent in the language

669
00:29:27,890 --> 00:29:29,266
and understood the culture because I'd

670
00:29:29,266 --> 00:29:30,866
worked there for a long time, which had

671
00:29:30,866 --> 00:29:34,510
its own dynamics under sharia law. For

672
00:29:34,510 --> 00:29:36,594
westerners, it was a hard environment to

673
00:29:36,594 --> 00:29:38,626
even immerse myself in, to do the work

674
00:29:38,626 --> 00:29:40,326
that I did. But I had spent quite a bit of

675
00:29:40,326 --> 00:29:42,342
time sort of honing all of that and

676
00:29:42,342 --> 00:29:44,662
building relationships. But I do remember

677
00:29:44,662 --> 00:29:47,026
sometimes you would see these ngos making

678
00:29:47,026 --> 00:29:48,826
decisions that clearly nobody was in the

679
00:29:48,826 --> 00:29:52,138
back of the truck, understanding just

680
00:29:52,138 --> 00:29:54,598
people, leaders coming in, making

681
00:29:54,598 --> 00:29:56,346
decisions that aren't informed. And then

682
00:29:56,346 --> 00:29:58,614
we would see the aftermath of it. Like

683
00:29:58,614 --> 00:30:02,966
boats that were made for a river that was

684
00:30:02,966 --> 00:30:04,894
intended to be in the ocean. Those are

685
00:30:04,894 --> 00:30:06,746
different. And so they ended up just

686
00:30:06,746 --> 00:30:08,926
turning them upside down and making shops

687
00:30:08,926 --> 00:30:10,842
out of them, because Indonesians are

688
00:30:10,842 --> 00:30:12,766
innovative like that. But there was a lot

689
00:30:12,766 --> 00:30:16,218
of republic of Kuwait boats, and so, yeah,

690
00:30:16,218 --> 00:30:17,918
you just saw decisions being made that

691
00:30:17,918 --> 00:30:20,494
it's like, oh, wow, we don't want to waste

692
00:30:20,494 --> 00:30:23,314
resources by not just spending our time

693
00:30:23,314 --> 00:30:24,898
really understanding. And that could be

694
00:30:24,898 --> 00:30:27,602
anything from in a company where you get,

695
00:30:27,602 --> 00:30:29,150
like, what I'm doing right now is one of

696
00:30:29,150 --> 00:30:32,306
the things I'm working on is we have glint

697
00:30:32,306 --> 00:30:34,198
survey data, and there's a particular part

698
00:30:34,198 --> 00:30:36,294
of the data that we weren't sure what

699
00:30:36,294 --> 00:30:37,526
people meant when they said certain

700
00:30:37,526 --> 00:30:39,574
things. So now I have focus groups going

701
00:30:39,574 --> 00:30:42,178
on here in the office in Silicon Valley.

702
00:30:42,178 --> 00:30:43,738
I'm going to be doing that in Taiwan when

703
00:30:43,738 --> 00:30:45,722
I go there. And it's just asking our

704
00:30:45,722 --> 00:30:48,086
people, what did you mean when you

705
00:30:48,086 --> 00:30:50,006
answered these ways? Like, we don't know

706
00:30:50,006 --> 00:30:52,010
specifically who said what, but just the

707
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:54,266
data on there that aren't people, and then

708
00:30:54,266 --> 00:30:56,826
there's enough people that said it. So

709
00:30:56,826 --> 00:30:59,486
we're just asking people to share, because

710
00:30:59,486 --> 00:31:01,722
as leaders, like you said, we make

711
00:31:01,722 --> 00:31:03,662
decisions, and our decisions, if they're

712
00:31:03,662 --> 00:31:07,694
not informed by actual how things work, we

713
00:31:07,694 --> 00:31:09,746
make bad decisions. So what are some of

714
00:31:09,746 --> 00:31:11,234
the things that you've learned along the

715
00:31:11,234 --> 00:31:13,326
way in terms of just in addition to what

716
00:31:13,326 --> 00:31:15,554
you're saying or advice you give to people

717
00:31:15,554 --> 00:31:17,254
about people, how they can have a little

718
00:31:17,254 --> 00:31:20,934
more clarity when they make decisions? So

719
00:31:20,934 --> 00:31:22,578
the first thing that comes to mind, and

720
00:31:22,578 --> 00:31:25,026
we've actually woven this into our company

721
00:31:25,026 --> 00:31:27,986
core values, there was an amazing woman.

722
00:31:27,986 --> 00:31:30,806
She's passed away now, called Pamela

723
00:31:30,806 --> 00:31:32,314
hardigan. I'm not sure if you're familiar

724
00:31:32,314 --> 00:31:34,486
with her, but she had this beautiful

725
00:31:34,486 --> 00:31:36,586
phrase that she used where she would say,

726
00:31:36,586 --> 00:31:39,738
you need to apprentice with the problem.

727
00:31:39,738 --> 00:31:42,042
And that piece of the example you just

728
00:31:42,042 --> 00:31:43,662
gave, being a beautiful example, don't

729
00:31:43,662 --> 00:31:46,954
just assume you understand something.

730
00:31:46,954 --> 00:31:48,782
Don't think that good intentions are good

731
00:31:48,782 --> 00:31:51,066
enough. Well, I was trying to help. So

732
00:31:51,066 --> 00:31:53,566
surely that boat, that was for the ocean,

733
00:31:53,566 --> 00:31:55,514
you should be thankful because I'm very

734
00:31:55,514 --> 00:31:58,354
generous and was helping you. These pieces

735
00:31:58,354 --> 00:32:01,246
of stopping and saying, how do we need to

736
00:32:01,246 --> 00:32:02,466
apprentice with the problem? Where do we

737
00:32:02,466 --> 00:32:04,642
come at this from curiosity? Where do we

738
00:32:04,642 --> 00:32:06,614
ask a question and have a conversation,

739
00:32:06,614 --> 00:32:09,650
rather than assume we know best and then

740
00:32:09,650 --> 00:32:13,622
impose ourselves on people or situations

741
00:32:13,622 --> 00:32:17,122
that, as your starting point, is always a

742
00:32:17,122 --> 00:32:18,966
brilliant way to. You're never going to

743
00:32:18,966 --> 00:32:21,398
get it perfectly right. It's a bit like

744
00:32:21,398 --> 00:32:23,130
parenting. There will be things that our

745
00:32:23,130 --> 00:32:26,134
children are deeply hurt by and

746
00:32:26,134 --> 00:32:27,734
disappointed in what we've done,

747
00:32:27,734 --> 00:32:29,274
regardless of what our intentions are and

748
00:32:29,274 --> 00:32:32,554
how we do our best? Right. So in none of

749
00:32:32,554 --> 00:32:34,926
this, am I trying to make leaders feel

750
00:32:34,926 --> 00:32:36,560
like, oh, my goodness, I've got to be

751
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,862
perfect. But I always say, you need to

752
00:32:38,862 --> 00:32:40,942
hold these two. This goes back to your

753
00:32:40,942 --> 00:32:43,214
both and mindset. Right. So as a leader,

754
00:32:43,214 --> 00:32:45,850
being able to hold two things that seem

755
00:32:45,850 --> 00:32:47,700
contradictory and say they're equally

756
00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:50,274
true, I think that when we are trying to

757
00:32:50,274 --> 00:32:52,178
move into this world and be more conscious

758
00:32:52,178 --> 00:32:55,362
of the impact we're having in a flow on

759
00:32:55,362 --> 00:32:57,926
way in the world, in the work that we do,

760
00:32:57,926 --> 00:33:02,278
we need to hold in our minds the piece of

761
00:33:02,278 --> 00:33:04,374
how do we have a designerly disposition.

762
00:33:04,374 --> 00:33:08,082
So how do we be willing to try just pilot,

763
00:33:08,082 --> 00:33:12,122
prototype, test things, but do that in a

764
00:33:12,122 --> 00:33:15,066
way that also holds what Rattel, I'm not

765
00:33:15,066 --> 00:33:17,722
sure whether you've read any of the work

766
00:33:17,722 --> 00:33:19,494
around what's called wicked problems that

767
00:33:19,494 --> 00:33:22,494
Rattel wrote many years ago, but in there

768
00:33:22,494 --> 00:33:25,038
he talks about if you are intervening in a

769
00:33:25,038 --> 00:33:27,182
system or in a position where there are

770
00:33:27,182 --> 00:33:30,350
these deeply complex problems, then you

771
00:33:30,350 --> 00:33:33,274
have no right to be wrong. And people can

772
00:33:33,274 --> 00:33:35,426
freak out when they hear that. But I think

773
00:33:35,426 --> 00:33:38,482
when you hold designly disposition and no

774
00:33:38,482 --> 00:33:42,178
right to be wrong together, what it allows

775
00:33:42,178 --> 00:33:45,694
you to do is say, how would we test or

776
00:33:45,694 --> 00:33:48,194
prototype this without actually really

777
00:33:48,194 --> 00:33:50,902
raising expectations for a group of people

778
00:33:50,902 --> 00:33:54,246
that have then come to rely on us? And we

779
00:33:54,246 --> 00:33:56,374
actually didn't know what we were doing,

780
00:33:56,374 --> 00:33:58,614
and we didn't yet have sign off or budget

781
00:33:58,614 --> 00:34:00,806
to continue to do that. So we probably

782
00:34:00,806 --> 00:34:02,794
shouldn't have talked a big game yet.

783
00:34:02,794 --> 00:34:06,134
Right. So holding two seemingly

784
00:34:06,134 --> 00:34:07,642
contradictory things in your mind at the

785
00:34:07,642 --> 00:34:11,674
same time, and then landing at and

786
00:34:11,674 --> 00:34:15,406
continuing to work your model or your

787
00:34:15,406 --> 00:34:18,062
design until you get to a place where

788
00:34:18,062 --> 00:34:21,374
those two things can coexist, that is the

789
00:34:21,374 --> 00:34:23,790
most effective way to step into this

790
00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:27,278
space. So I think some of those ideas

791
00:34:27,278 --> 00:34:29,026
apprenticing with the problem, learning to

792
00:34:29,026 --> 00:34:30,946
have that designly disposition, be willing

793
00:34:30,946 --> 00:34:34,062
to play and try and not being scared of

794
00:34:34,062 --> 00:34:37,030
failing, but also taking seriously your

795
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:39,522
responsibilities. Those pieces, when they

796
00:34:39,522 --> 00:34:42,434
dance together, create a really

797
00:34:42,434 --> 00:34:44,054
energizing, exciting culture for people

798
00:34:44,054 --> 00:34:46,786
because they can try new things, they can

799
00:34:46,786 --> 00:34:50,022
explore, but they also feel that sense of

800
00:34:50,022 --> 00:34:52,250
the weight, if you like, but in a positive

801
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:54,266
way, of there is responsibility here, and

802
00:34:54,266 --> 00:34:56,166
I want to act with integrity. I want to be

803
00:34:56,166 --> 00:34:58,234
proud of what we're building. We don't

804
00:34:58,234 --> 00:35:01,386
want to fall into that trap of that black

805
00:35:01,386 --> 00:35:03,946
and white aspect of business, being that

806
00:35:03,946 --> 00:35:05,806
for us to win, someone else has to lose,

807
00:35:05,806 --> 00:35:08,106
or it's on the back of someone else being

808
00:35:08,106 --> 00:35:09,854
exploited. That's not what we're trying to

809
00:35:09,854 --> 00:35:11,886
do. And so I think some of those pieces

810
00:35:11,886 --> 00:35:14,754
are good ways to start as a leader in your

811
00:35:14,754 --> 00:35:17,858
own culture, to say, here's what we want

812
00:35:17,858 --> 00:35:21,442
to be moving towards. What are the types

813
00:35:21,442 --> 00:35:24,482
of ways we could run a project, or how we

814
00:35:24,482 --> 00:35:27,782
could explore opportunities in a different

815
00:35:27,782 --> 00:35:30,440
way that holds these two pieces in our

816
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:37,254
mind. So good. I think a lot of leaders

817
00:35:37,254 --> 00:35:42,026
we. See are. Working in such a way as to

818
00:35:42,026 --> 00:35:45,210
where they're kind of burning out. Because

819
00:35:45,210 --> 00:35:46,986
especially if you're doing, going above

820
00:35:46,986 --> 00:35:52,106
and beyond, like in business, for example,

821
00:35:52,106 --> 00:35:55,146
there's deadlines to make, there's direct

822
00:35:55,146 --> 00:35:57,130
reports to make sure you're caring for and

823
00:35:57,130 --> 00:35:58,762
motivating, and especially middle

824
00:35:58,762 --> 00:36:01,454
management, kind of sort of a huge part of

825
00:36:01,454 --> 00:36:04,286
the job of these middle management to make

826
00:36:04,286 --> 00:36:06,266
sure they're continuing to motivate

827
00:36:06,266 --> 00:36:08,722
workforce. And then they're having to

828
00:36:08,722 --> 00:36:10,866
maybe pass down decisions that they may or

829
00:36:10,866 --> 00:36:13,074
may not have agreed with and say it in a

830
00:36:13,074 --> 00:36:14,978
way that their direct reports can receive

831
00:36:14,978 --> 00:36:16,418
when they may feel that they're burning

832
00:36:16,418 --> 00:36:18,182
their own direct reports out. Because

833
00:36:18,182 --> 00:36:20,674
business can be hard at times. And then

834
00:36:20,674 --> 00:36:22,774
leaders have this sort of mental load that

835
00:36:22,774 --> 00:36:27,046
they carry. So have you seen leaders where

836
00:36:27,046 --> 00:36:28,906
they want to do the right thing? They want

837
00:36:28,906 --> 00:36:31,766
to be leaders who don't just care about

838
00:36:31,766 --> 00:36:34,474
profit, but to add on purpose just feels

839
00:36:34,474 --> 00:36:38,714
too much. It feels like an overload. Have

840
00:36:38,714 --> 00:36:40,314
you encountered people like that? And if

841
00:36:40,314 --> 00:36:41,838
so, what have you told them? Or how have

842
00:36:41,838 --> 00:36:46,778
you helped them? I think for most business

843
00:36:46,778 --> 00:36:48,894
leaders, it still falls into that category

844
00:36:48,894 --> 00:36:52,954
where it feels like part of them would

845
00:36:52,954 --> 00:36:54,962
love for that to be something that was

846
00:36:54,962 --> 00:36:57,554
their experience at work. But it seems

847
00:36:57,554 --> 00:37:01,054
like that's another thing to do. And it

848
00:37:01,054 --> 00:37:05,334
typically is framed in a way where it's

849
00:37:05,334 --> 00:37:08,930
seen as a distraction to the primary

850
00:37:08,930 --> 00:37:11,762
strategy or something that will be an

851
00:37:11,762 --> 00:37:14,454
expense or time consuming. And that's

852
00:37:14,454 --> 00:37:17,270
really disappointing, because that is, in

853
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:22,634
many respects, on the back of people like

854
00:37:22,634 --> 00:37:25,420
me, who for decades have been in this

855
00:37:25,420 --> 00:37:28,854
world. If what you've always seen as the

856
00:37:28,854 --> 00:37:31,200
examples of how to contribute or do

857
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,802
something have been things that were

858
00:37:33,802 --> 00:37:36,698
incredibly expensive, really time

859
00:37:36,698 --> 00:37:39,306
consuming, and weren't connected to the

860
00:37:39,306 --> 00:37:42,218
core business, then that's all you've been

861
00:37:42,218 --> 00:37:43,146
demonstrated. And so you think, well,

862
00:37:43,146 --> 00:37:45,626
that's nice. And maybe if I had 10,000

863
00:37:45,626 --> 00:37:47,250
employees, I could do that, or maybe if I

864
00:37:47,250 --> 00:37:49,620
had massive cash flow, that would be an

865
00:37:49,620 --> 00:37:52,290
option, but how on earth am I going to do

866
00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:55,118
that? And so I think part of the work,

867
00:37:55,118 --> 00:37:58,146
particularly in the last two years, where

868
00:37:58,146 --> 00:38:01,362
I've been pulling together what the actual

869
00:38:01,362 --> 00:38:03,446
methodology is and saying, how do we get

870
00:38:03,446 --> 00:38:06,002
back to a place where you can be

871
00:38:06,002 --> 00:38:08,502
unapologetic about pursuing the

872
00:38:08,502 --> 00:38:10,406
competitive advantages that come from

873
00:38:10,406 --> 00:38:13,050
merging these aspects of money and

874
00:38:13,050 --> 00:38:15,958
meaning? You don't need to feel

875
00:38:15,958 --> 00:38:19,610
uncomfortable about something being

876
00:38:19,610 --> 00:38:24,494
commercially advantageous, as long as it

877
00:38:24,494 --> 00:38:27,918
is connected to growth and scaling of a

878
00:38:27,918 --> 00:38:30,094
business on the back of adding more value.

879
00:38:30,094 --> 00:38:32,746
So if we come back to this piece of when

880
00:38:32,746 --> 00:38:35,166
you're in that place of exhaustion, and it

881
00:38:35,166 --> 00:38:37,394
feels like you just couldn't add another

882
00:38:37,394 --> 00:38:40,754
thing in, it's stopping and saying, yeah,

883
00:38:40,754 --> 00:38:42,962
and you shouldn't add another thing in,

884
00:38:42,962 --> 00:38:45,310
but maybe you could run your business

885
00:38:45,310 --> 00:38:46,614
differently. And even if you're at that

886
00:38:46,614 --> 00:38:48,726
level of middle management, because that,

887
00:38:48,726 --> 00:38:51,350
as you said, can be a very difficult

888
00:38:51,350 --> 00:38:55,494
position to be in. It's figuring out where

889
00:38:55,494 --> 00:38:57,718
do you have influence and control? What

890
00:38:57,718 --> 00:39:02,090
are the decisions you can actually be

891
00:39:02,090 --> 00:39:05,674
shaping. And if there's a report, there's

892
00:39:05,674 --> 00:39:07,546
a directive coming down that you're going

893
00:39:07,546 --> 00:39:09,510
to need to share with your team and you

894
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:11,614
fundamentally don't agree with it, but it

895
00:39:11,614 --> 00:39:16,058
has to be played out. You can shape how

896
00:39:16,058 --> 00:39:18,046
that's shared with your team or exactly

897
00:39:18,046 --> 00:39:20,142
how it's executed within your team, and

898
00:39:20,142 --> 00:39:22,714
whether there's conversations about

899
00:39:22,714 --> 00:39:25,546
figuring out, right, let's not turn into

900
00:39:25,546 --> 00:39:27,346
being every person for themselves, but how

901
00:39:27,346 --> 00:39:30,434
do we, as our own little team, talk this

902
00:39:30,434 --> 00:39:33,294
through and divide up the tasks so that it

903
00:39:33,294 --> 00:39:35,206
doesn't actually have a detrimental effect

904
00:39:35,206 --> 00:39:38,662
on us? Or how do you, as the leader of

905
00:39:38,662 --> 00:39:41,590
your individual team, even within a bigger

906
00:39:41,590 --> 00:39:44,582
organization, cultivate that space where

907
00:39:44,582 --> 00:39:46,754
people do feel, for example,

908
00:39:46,754 --> 00:39:48,610
psychologically safe, where they are able

909
00:39:48,610 --> 00:39:50,700
to come and talk to you when it's

910
00:39:50,700 --> 00:39:53,146
difficult? Now, there will be constraints

911
00:39:53,146 --> 00:39:55,674
to that depending on what your position

912
00:39:55,674 --> 00:39:58,522
is, and I absolutely acknowledge that. I

913
00:39:58,522 --> 00:40:01,690
think regardless of where your leadership

914
00:40:01,690 --> 00:40:03,434
position is in the organization, though,

915
00:40:03,434 --> 00:40:05,086
it's starting with those pieces of where

916
00:40:05,086 --> 00:40:06,974
do I have decision making control, or at

917
00:40:06,974 --> 00:40:10,234
least some influence, and then how do I

918
00:40:10,234 --> 00:40:13,066
shape things from there towards this idea

919
00:40:13,066 --> 00:40:16,222
of business where we're unapologetically

920
00:40:16,222 --> 00:40:19,986
pursuing both? So we're saying, okay, we

921
00:40:19,986 --> 00:40:22,334
can get to a place where, rather than

922
00:40:22,334 --> 00:40:24,258
burning out our team, because we see that,

923
00:40:24,258 --> 00:40:26,738
oh, my goodness, for us to actually be

924
00:40:26,738 --> 00:40:28,934
able to reduce costs and increase revenue

925
00:40:28,934 --> 00:40:30,966
and get that profit up, we're going to

926
00:40:30,966 --> 00:40:34,418
have to get more out of these workers.

927
00:40:34,418 --> 00:40:36,374
Shifting that perspective and saying,

928
00:40:36,374 --> 00:40:37,926
where could we innovate in the back end of

929
00:40:37,926 --> 00:40:40,794
our business model, where actually people

930
00:40:40,794 --> 00:40:42,982
could be doing less hours but being more

931
00:40:42,982 --> 00:40:44,890
productive? Or where are there pieces

932
00:40:44,890 --> 00:40:47,660
where we have something in house that

933
00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:50,998
actually, if we outsourced that, and I

934
00:40:50,998 --> 00:40:52,942
don't mean in the way of going to another

935
00:40:52,942 --> 00:40:55,530
country and paying people below a living

936
00:40:55,530 --> 00:40:58,190
wage, I mean figuring out what your core

937
00:40:58,190 --> 00:41:00,174
business is and then not being distracted

938
00:41:00,174 --> 00:41:02,750
by trying to be doing everything

939
00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:04,986
internally, all of these pieces are the

940
00:41:04,986 --> 00:41:07,714
role of a leader, whether a middle manager

941
00:41:07,714 --> 00:41:09,886
or someone actually running the company.

942
00:41:09,886 --> 00:41:12,558
It's to say, how do we change our

943
00:41:12,558 --> 00:41:13,986
perspective, starting from that place?

944
00:41:13,986 --> 00:41:15,874
That said, I do actually believe that you

945
00:41:15,874 --> 00:41:17,986
can merge money and meaning, and that I

946
00:41:17,986 --> 00:41:20,066
can get to a place where I see that

947
00:41:20,066 --> 00:41:22,566
purpose of business being, how do I know

948
00:41:22,566 --> 00:41:25,462
the value I bring? How do I understand the

949
00:41:25,462 --> 00:41:28,146
value customers want from us? And how do I

950
00:41:28,146 --> 00:41:30,554
capture value in return when it's that

951
00:41:30,554 --> 00:41:32,634
piece of delivering and capturing value

952
00:41:32,634 --> 00:41:34,662
and creating that beautiful self

953
00:41:34,662 --> 00:41:37,306
reinforcing loop where we're only growing

954
00:41:37,306 --> 00:41:39,802
on the back of adding more value, what

955
00:41:39,802 --> 00:41:44,222
that does, the delivery of value. And then

956
00:41:44,222 --> 00:41:47,360
that driving of revenue into your business

957
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,102
model suddenly means you are not in the

958
00:41:51,102 --> 00:41:53,226
position of being exhausted. And seeing

959
00:41:53,226 --> 00:41:56,194
this as another thing to add on, it

960
00:41:56,194 --> 00:41:58,274
actually relieves pressure and stress,

961
00:41:58,274 --> 00:42:01,214
both financially and on that mental load,

962
00:42:01,214 --> 00:42:03,938
people's well being. So creating that win

963
00:42:03,938 --> 00:42:05,798
win actually starts from that belief about

964
00:42:05,798 --> 00:42:07,878
the purpose of business and then looking

965
00:42:07,878 --> 00:42:12,022
at the opportunity differently. Yeah. So

966
00:42:12,022 --> 00:42:14,946
good. I love it. It's definitely the

967
00:42:14,946 --> 00:42:17,190
challenge of leaders, but there are good

968
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:18,806
things being done and there's people doing

969
00:42:18,806 --> 00:42:21,670
it well. And I think that having these

970
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:23,190
conversations is really helpful.

971
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:25,242
Hopefully, people listening are getting

972
00:42:25,242 --> 00:42:27,274
new thoughts because of what they've heard

973
00:42:27,274 --> 00:42:29,338
you say and your own experiences. And I

974
00:42:29,338 --> 00:42:30,814
just thank you for sharing those with us

975
00:42:30,814 --> 00:42:34,206
today. Your unique background, bringing

976
00:42:34,206 --> 00:42:36,266
your work in both kind of nonprofit

977
00:42:36,266 --> 00:42:38,558
spaces, and then with government and

978
00:42:38,558 --> 00:42:41,086
business all together, these things are

979
00:42:41,086 --> 00:42:43,198
not at ods with each other. They can work

980
00:42:43,198 --> 00:42:45,226
together, even those entities, those

981
00:42:45,226 --> 00:42:46,366
institutions, to make a difference. So

982
00:42:46,366 --> 00:42:47,566
thank you for bringing that together for

983
00:42:47,566 --> 00:42:49,586
us today. Would you let people know where

984
00:42:49,586 --> 00:42:50,834
they can find you if they want to know

985
00:42:50,834 --> 00:42:52,894
more about your work? Do you have any

986
00:42:52,894 --> 00:42:54,386
freebies to offer that people might want

987
00:42:54,386 --> 00:42:56,338
to know about. And let people know about

988
00:42:56,338 --> 00:42:58,274
that? Yeah, absolutely. So the best place

989
00:42:58,274 --> 00:43:01,526
to go is to my website, bessiegraham.com.

990
00:43:01,526 --> 00:43:04,614
So we'll share the link, and we'll also

991
00:43:04,614 --> 00:43:06,886
share a link to a free download that you

992
00:43:06,886 --> 00:43:09,560
can grab, which goes through five of the

993
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,162
questions that over my 24, nearly 25 years

994
00:43:13,162 --> 00:43:15,494
of working in this space, I've found these

995
00:43:15,494 --> 00:43:18,486
patterns of five questions that decisive

996
00:43:18,486 --> 00:43:20,346
leaders need to actually have clarity on.

997
00:43:20,346 --> 00:43:21,994
And so if you want to have a read of that

998
00:43:21,994 --> 00:43:23,882
and think about, can you actually answer

999
00:43:23,882 --> 00:43:25,726
those questions? Where do you have some of

1000
00:43:25,726 --> 00:43:27,774
the gaps? That's a great place to start.

1001
00:43:27,774 --> 00:43:31,134
So head to the website and download that.

1002
00:43:31,134 --> 00:43:32,478
And from the website, you'll also be able

1003
00:43:32,478 --> 00:43:34,366
to find the podcast and any other bits you

1004
00:43:34,366 --> 00:43:37,106
might want to dig in a little bit more to

1005
00:43:37,106 --> 00:43:40,722
what I'm working on. Lovely. Thank you so

1006
00:43:40,722 --> 00:43:43,026
much, Bessie. It's been just an honor to

1007
00:43:43,026 --> 00:43:44,626
have this conversation with you. It's

1008
00:43:44,626 --> 00:43:47,086
given me new insights and a new

1009
00:43:47,086 --> 00:43:49,106
imagination for how things can be in

1010
00:43:49,106 --> 00:43:51,654
business and in nonprofit and all those

1011
00:43:51,654 --> 00:43:53,366
things together. And so just thank you for

1012
00:43:53,366 --> 00:43:54,566
this conversation. But we're going to have

1013
00:43:54,566 --> 00:43:56,578
you also hang out with our difference

1014
00:43:56,578 --> 00:43:58,406
makers. So any of you who aren't there,

1015
00:43:58,406 --> 00:44:02,054
you can check us out at ww patreon.com

1016
00:44:02,054 --> 00:44:04,026
slash a world of difference where Bessie

1017
00:44:04,026 --> 00:44:05,706
and I'll be having this conversation a

1018
00:44:05,706 --> 00:44:08,282
little deeper around the self leadership

1019
00:44:08,282 --> 00:44:10,806
piece and the resilience piece for our

1020
00:44:10,806 --> 00:44:12,474
leaders. I want to kind of dig a little

1021
00:44:12,474 --> 00:44:14,298
more into that with yeah, but for this

1022
00:44:14,298 --> 00:44:15,566
part of the conversation, just thank you

1023
00:44:15,566 --> 00:44:17,402
so much for being here today. It's been an

1024
00:44:17,402 --> 00:44:20,506
honor. My pleasure. Thank you. I really

1025
00:44:20,506 --> 00:44:22,074
learned so much from Bessie and her

1026
00:44:22,074 --> 00:44:24,318
perspective today. Just loved her stories

1027
00:44:24,318 --> 00:44:26,802
of sitting in the back of the truck,

1028
00:44:26,802 --> 00:44:29,326
right, of being the kind of leader who

1029
00:44:29,326 --> 00:44:31,454
understands that macro and micro

1030
00:44:31,454 --> 00:44:33,026
perspectives on a situation really lead to

1031
00:44:33,026 --> 00:44:35,406
the best decisions and to be more

1032
00:44:35,406 --> 00:44:37,334
inclusive in the people she listens to, to

1033
00:44:37,334 --> 00:44:40,722
make decisions that really matter, really

1034
00:44:40,722 --> 00:44:43,174
holding businesses to the values they set

1035
00:44:43,174 --> 00:44:44,946
out at the beginning to say, this is why

1036
00:44:44,946 --> 00:44:47,814
we're doing this and helping people start

1037
00:44:47,814 --> 00:44:50,202
at that beginning of the process instead

1038
00:44:50,202 --> 00:44:52,886
of making decisions way down the line and

1039
00:44:52,886 --> 00:44:55,354
forgetting why they do what they do. I

1040
00:44:55,354 --> 00:44:57,994
really do agree with her that when it

1041
00:44:57,994 --> 00:45:00,842
comes to resilience for leaders and why

1042
00:45:00,842 --> 00:45:03,326
people burn out some of the things we talk

1043
00:45:03,326 --> 00:45:05,994
a lot more deeply about in the difference

1044
00:45:05,994 --> 00:45:08,126
maker conversation. So please join us

1045
00:45:08,126 --> 00:45:11,870
there at Ww dot patreon.com a world of

1046
00:45:11,870 --> 00:45:13,226
difference where you'll get to hear that

1047
00:45:13,226 --> 00:45:14,686
exclusive interview with her. We go a lot

1048
00:45:14,686 --> 00:45:18,066
deeper into what it means to lead

1049
00:45:18,066 --> 00:45:20,110
yourself, have self leadership and

1050
00:45:20,110 --> 00:45:23,038
resilience in the face of all kinds of

1051
00:45:23,038 --> 00:45:24,398
circumstances. If I'm being honest, I

1052
00:45:24,398 --> 00:45:25,998
loved this podcast conversation you're

1053
00:45:25,998 --> 00:45:28,754
listening to now. But I even loved more

1054
00:45:28,754 --> 00:45:30,706
the conversation we had on our difference

1055
00:45:30,706 --> 00:45:32,326
maker community. So please do check that

1056
00:45:32,326 --> 00:45:35,014
out. We go into what do you do when you

1057
00:45:35,014 --> 00:45:37,506
show up as a leader and you don't look or

1058
00:45:37,506 --> 00:45:39,846
seem like they expected you to be? How do

1059
00:45:39,846 --> 00:45:41,926
you navigate that situation? What are some

1060
00:45:41,926 --> 00:45:43,706
tips and tricks she's learned along the

1061
00:45:43,706 --> 00:45:45,386
way? Who are people she's learned from

1062
00:45:45,386 --> 00:45:48,954
that have informed her how to be a leader

1063
00:45:48,954 --> 00:45:51,702
that stays true to yourself even when the

1064
00:45:51,702 --> 00:45:53,114
expectations of who you are going to be

1065
00:45:53,114 --> 00:45:54,458
looks a little different when you show up

1066
00:45:54,458 --> 00:45:57,418
in the room. And I loved that

1067
00:45:57,418 --> 00:45:59,022
conversation. I find that when we pass

1068
00:45:59,022 --> 00:46:00,606
along information to each other about

1069
00:46:00,606 --> 00:46:02,174
things we've learned and the knowledge we

1070
00:46:02,174 --> 00:46:04,274
have just from our own experience, and

1071
00:46:04,274 --> 00:46:05,954
someone like her, having a couple decades

1072
00:46:05,954 --> 00:46:09,794
of experience of not only working know,

1073
00:46:09,794 --> 00:46:12,334
having Geneva UN headquarters in her

1074
00:46:12,334 --> 00:46:14,210
background, but also Pacific islands and

1075
00:46:14,210 --> 00:46:16,210
then also the work she does there in a big

1076
00:46:16,210 --> 00:46:19,266
city and diverse Melbourne, Australia, she

1077
00:46:19,266 --> 00:46:21,414
brings all these things to the table and I

1078
00:46:21,414 --> 00:46:22,694
just really learned so much from her

1079
00:46:22,694 --> 00:46:24,054
today. I hope you did too. Whether you

1080
00:46:24,054 --> 00:46:27,382
work in business, nonprofit, government,

1081
00:46:27,382 --> 00:46:29,138
whatever your space is, I hope you've

1082
00:46:29,138 --> 00:46:30,966
gleaned from this conversation. It was

1083
00:46:30,966 --> 00:46:32,874
just so much fun to talk to her. And once

1084
00:46:32,874 --> 00:46:35,462
again, please do check out the Patreon.

1085
00:46:35,462 --> 00:46:38,730
It's ww dot patreon.com. A world of

1086
00:46:38,730 --> 00:46:41,434
difference where you're going to just love

1087
00:46:41,434 --> 00:46:43,198
that conversation we had there, where we

1088
00:46:43,198 --> 00:46:45,454
go a lot deeper on the whole resilience

1089
00:46:45,454 --> 00:46:47,406
piece, self leadership piece, and how to

1090
00:46:47,406 --> 00:46:49,134
be authentically yourself in the midst of

1091
00:46:49,134 --> 00:46:52,270
really difficult circumstances sometimes.

1092
00:46:52,270 --> 00:46:55,794
So I know that many of you are just all

1093
00:46:55,794 --> 00:46:58,430
around the world dealing with hard

1094
00:46:58,430 --> 00:47:00,674
decisions. So hopefully know bringing some

1095
00:47:00,674 --> 00:47:03,154
more congruence into the decisions that

1096
00:47:03,154 --> 00:47:05,806
you make will help alleviate some of that

1097
00:47:05,806 --> 00:47:07,362
burnout that some of you may be feeling.

1098
00:47:07,362 --> 00:47:09,286
Because I know you difference makers, you

1099
00:47:09,286 --> 00:47:12,262
are not couch potatoes. You were people

1100
00:47:12,262 --> 00:47:14,178
who do need a break and do need a day of

1101
00:47:14,178 --> 00:47:16,662
laying on the couch occasionally just to

1102
00:47:16,662 --> 00:47:20,706
watch Netflix and just eat your favorite

1103
00:47:20,706 --> 00:47:22,586
ice cream. I don't know, some of you out

1104
00:47:22,586 --> 00:47:25,740
there just need a break, but at the same

1105
00:47:25,740 --> 00:47:27,866
time doing the work that you do that helps

1106
00:47:27,866 --> 00:47:29,626
you stay congruent with who you are. I

1107
00:47:29,626 --> 00:47:31,034
hope that you lean a little more into that

1108
00:47:31,034 --> 00:47:33,066
after this conversation and that she can

1109
00:47:33,066 --> 00:47:36,214
give some of her insights, can give you

1110
00:47:36,214 --> 00:47:37,658
handles on how to move forward in a way

1111
00:47:37,658 --> 00:47:39,278
that's more authentically who you are. We

1112
00:47:39,278 --> 00:47:41,086
need you to show up as yourself in the

1113
00:47:41,086 --> 00:47:42,794
world and bring your difference to the

1114
00:47:42,794 --> 00:47:44,462
table and help us all make a difference

1115
00:47:44,462 --> 00:47:46,378
together because of who you are. And you

1116
00:47:46,378 --> 00:47:48,826
don't have to be like everybody else. So

1117
00:47:48,826 --> 00:47:51,646
I'm glad she reminded us of that today.

1118
00:47:51,646 --> 00:47:53,662
Anyway, wherever you are in the world,

1119
00:47:53,662 --> 00:47:55,702
please just take care of yourself and keep