A podcast for those who are different and want to make a difference.
Nov. 21, 2023

Lydia Matioli on Building a Community Response to Sexual Violence: From Silence to Support:

Lydia Matioli on Building a Community Response to Sexual Violence: From Silence to Support:
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A World of Difference

In a world where silence shrouds the darkness, one woman's journey emerges from the depths of despair. Lydia Matioli's story is a haunting reminder that evil can lurk where we least expect it. From the hands of a trusted pastor to the horrors witnessed by her best friend, Lydia's path is marked by heartbreak and resilience. But as she embarks on a mission to end the cycle of sexual violence, a twist awaits, a twist that will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew.

My special guest is Lydia Matioli

Lydia Matioli is a highly accomplished professional in the field of sexual violence prevention and awareness. With a Bachelor of Arts in Gender, Women, and Development Studies and over eight years of experience in program design and community outreach, Lydia has established herself as a knowledgeable and respected figure in the industry. As the Programs and Partnerships Director at Freely and Hope, a nonprofit organization dedicated to ending the cycle of sexual violence in Kenya and Zambia, Lydia plays a pivotal role in designing and implementing effective programs and initiatives. Her work focuses on creating sustainable solutions and empowering abuse survivors and advocates to become leaders in their communities. Notably, Lydia recently released a children's book titled "Pendo's Power," which aims to educate children on recognizing and reporting sexual abuse. With her extensive expertise and commitment to making a difference, Lydia is a valuable guest on the A World of Difference podcast, offering invaluable insights and strategies for increasing awareness and prevention of sexual violence.

I want to be a lawyer so that whatever happened to me cannot happen to anyone else. I want to be a doctor to support other survivors. - Lydia Matioli


In this episode, you will be able to:

  • Learn effective strategies to prevent sexual violence and create a safer environment for your family.
  • Explore the influence of cultural beliefs on sexual violence and gain insights to challenge harmful norms.
  • Discover healing resources and support systems to empower survivors towards their journey of recovery.
  • Understand the importance of community engagement in addressing sexual violence and creating lasting change.
  • Equip children with the knowledge and skills to recognize and respond to abuse, ensuring their safety and well-being.

Healing and Support Options

The journey towards healing following sexual abuse is a tortuous path that necessitates ample support, understanding, and patience. Lydia stresses the importance of survivors being part of support groups like Freely in Hope and having access to referral services. Turning trauma into advocacy, sharing one's story, and challenging unacceptable stigmas are all vital elements of a holistic healing process.

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

  • Check out Lydia Matioli's new book, Pendo's Power, a children's book that helps kids recognize and report sexual abuse.
  • Visit the website of Freely and Hope, the organization Lydia works with, to learn more about their programs and initiatives to end sexual violence.
  • If you have experienced abuse or trauma and need professional help, visit BetterHelp.com to find a therapist who can provide support and guidance.
  • Take advantage of the 10% discount on your first month at BetterHelp.com/difference today.
  • Follow Lydia Matioli on social media to stay updated on her work and advocacy efforts.
  • Spread the word about Pendo's Power and the importance of educating children about consent and personal boundaries.
  • Consider volunteering or supporting local organizations that work towards ending sexual violence in your community.
  • Have open and honest conversations with children about consent, personal boundaries, and safe spaces.
  • Educate yourself on the signs of abuse and how to respond if someone discloses their experience to you.
  • Support survivors of abuse by listening, believing, and validating their experiences.

You do not have the right to have sex with a woman. A woman is a human being just like you, with the same rights, just like you. - Lydia Matioli

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:02 - Introduction


00:01:13 - Lydia's Work and Book


00:02:29 - Trigger Warning and Sponsor


00:04:33 - Introduction to Lydia Matioli


00:09:08 - Impact of Sexual Violence


00:18:21 - The Influence of Generational Beliefs on Sexual Violence


00:20:20 - Impact on Faith Communities


00:24:17 - Writing "Pendo's Power" to Address Child Sexual Abuse


00:30:31 - Empowering Children in the Face of Abuse


00:36:31 - The Impact of Healing and Advocacy


00:37:35 - The Complexity of Healing


00:39:45 - Best Practices for Healing


00:41:18 - The Power of Storytelling


00:53:54 - Join the World of Difference Community on Patreon


00:54:31 - Make a Difference by Sharing the Podcast


00:54:55 - Help Others Find the Podcast through Reviews


00:54:55 - Take Care of Yourself


00:54:55 - Keep Making a Difference


No one was holding anyone accountable. No one was talking about it. No one was asking the survivors, what's happening with you? - Lydia Matioli


Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:02 - Introduction

Host Lori Adams-Brown introduces the podcast and her guest, Lydia Matioli. She highlights Lydia's passion for building platforms for abuse survivors and advocates and discusses Lydia's background growing up in Kibera, Africa's largest slum.


00:01:13 - Lydia's Work and Book

Lori discusses Lydia's work as the Programs and Partnerships Director at Freely and Hope, where she designs and implements programs to address sexual violence. They also talk about Lydia's recently released book, "Pendo's Power," which helps children recognize and report sexual abuse.


00:02:29 - Trigger Warning and Sponsor

Lori gives a trigger warning for the sensitive topic of sexual abuse and introduces the podcast sponsor, BetterHelp, a resource for therapy and counseling. She shares her personal experience with therapy and encourages listeners to seek help if needed.


00:04:33 - Introduction to Lydia Matioli

Lori welcomes Lydia and asks her to share more about her background. Lydia shares that she is a mother, leads programs at Freely and Hope, and grew up in Kibera. She opens up about her personal experiences with sexual abuse and the culture of silence in her community.


00:09:08 - Impact of Sexual Violence

Lydia recounts the story of her best friend who was gang-raped in Kibera and the lack of support and resources available to survivors. She explains how this experience inspired her to start having conversations about sexual violence and led to her advocacy work


00:18:21 - The Influence of Generational Beliefs on Sexual Violence

The guest discusses how the belief systems of previous generations have contributed to the prevalence of sexual violence. Both men and women have been conditioned to believe in retrogressive beliefs, perpetuating a cycle of abuse. The guest emphasizes the need to shift this mindset and promote respect and equality between genders.


00:20:20 - Impact on Faith Communities

The guest shares her personal struggle with faith communities due to her experiences with abuse. Many perpetrators are faith leaders, which has affected her trust and connection with God through the community. She acknowledges the need to find her own ways of practicing her faith and emphasizes the importance of caring for oneself and protecting against further harm.


00:24:17 - Writing "Pendo's Power" to Address Child Sexual Abuse

The guest explains that her experiences as a survivor and as a mother inspired her to write the book "Pendo's Power." The book aims to help children recognize and report sexual abuse by teaching them about body boundaries, consent, and the power of their voice. The guest shares positive feedback and the impact the book is having on children and parents.


00:30:31 - Empowering Children in the Face of Abuse

The conversation highlights the power dynamics between adults and children that often result in the silencing of children's voices. The guest discusses how the book "Pendo's Power" empowers children by validating their experiences and teaching them that their voice matters. The book helps children understand that they have the power to speak up and be


00:36:31 - The Impact of Healing and Advocacy

The guest expresses the importance of giving freedom to survivors of abuse and allowing them to share their stories. They discuss the impact of abuse on mothers and the opportunity for healing and advocacy when their own children reach the age they were when the abuse occurred. They also highlight the need for advocacy within faith communities to protect children.


00:37:35 - The Complexity of Healing

The conversation explores the complexity of healing from sexual violence, particularly when the abusers are often considered "do-gooders" in society. They discuss the difficulty survivors face in being believed due to the perception of their abusers as trustworthy individuals. The guest emphasizes the need for survivors to be part of a supportive community and to access support services.


00:39:45 - Best Practices for Healing

The guest recommends being part of a community of survivors as a key practice for healing. They mention the importance of support groups for survivors and the creation of communities where individuals can share their stories and reclaim lost parts of themselves. Additionally, they emphasize the importance of accessing support services and provide resources for survivors.


00:41:18 - The Power of Storytelling

The conversation highlights the power of storytelling in the healing process. They discuss the need for survivors to have their stories heard, believed, and empathized with. They emphasize the role of Safe communities in providing support and healing. Storytelling is acknowledged as a key element in processing trauma.


00:53:54 - Join the World of Difference Community on Patreon

Join the World of Difference community on Patreon to access extra content, including travel tips from Lori. Share the podcast with others to make a difference and leave a review to help the podcast reach more people.


00:54:31 - Make a Difference by Sharing the Podcast

Share the podcast with someone who could benefit from the conversation. This is one way to make a difference and help others.


00:54:55 - Help Others Find the Podcast through Reviews

Leave a review for the podcast on your preferred platform. This helps others discover the podcast and engage in important conversations.


00:54:55 - Take Care of Yourself

With a lot going on in the world, remember to prioritize self-care. No matter where you are, your actions can make a difference.


00:54:55 - Keep Making a Difference

Despite the challenges, keep striving to make a positive impact in the world. Your efforts matter.


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Keep making a difference wherever you are!

Lori Adams-Brown, Host & Executive Producer

A World of Difference Podcast

Transcript
1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,458 Welcome to the A World of Difference 2 00:00:04,458 --> 00:00:06,766 podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown and this is. 3 00:00:06,766 --> 00:00:08,606 A podcast for those who are different. And 4 00:00:08,606 --> 00:00:12,394 want to make a difference. I am so 5 00:00:12,394 --> 00:00:14,074 excited. If you have not heard of my. 6 00:00:14,074 --> 00:00:15,694 Guest today, you are going to be. Blown 7 00:00:15,694 --> 00:00:17,994 away by this woman. She's just an 8 00:00:17,994 --> 00:00:19,646 outstanding human being and I'm thrilled 9 00:00:19,646 --> 00:00:23,246 to have Lydia Matioli on the show today. 10 00:00:23,246 --> 00:00:25,382 She has a new book that's being released 11 00:00:25,382 --> 00:00:28,262 and Lydia is just incredibly passionate 12 00:00:28,262 --> 00:00:31,042 about building platforms for abuse 13 00:00:31,042 --> 00:00:33,654 survivors and advocates to be leaders in 14 00:00:33,654 --> 00:00:36,914 their own communities. She loves creating 15 00:00:36,914 --> 00:00:38,566 sustainable solutions that prevent and 16 00:00:38,566 --> 00:00:41,626 respond to sexual violence and within 17 00:00:41,626 --> 00:00:43,702 different communities. She was born and 18 00:00:43,702 --> 00:00:45,814 raised in Kibera, which is Africa's 19 00:00:45,814 --> 00:00:49,302 largest slum, and Lydia has herself 20 00:00:49,302 --> 00:00:50,854 firsthand experienced the effects of 21 00:00:50,854 --> 00:00:53,374 sexual violence. Also how the lack of 22 00:00:53,374 --> 00:00:55,534 education and poverty plays into all of 23 00:00:55,534 --> 00:00:58,190 this. She's experienced that firsthand and 24 00:00:58,190 --> 00:01:01,054 so now she works with Freely and Hope as 25 00:01:01,054 --> 00:01:03,006 the programs and Partnerships director and 26 00:01:03,006 --> 00:01:04,926 so she gets to design and implement 27 00:01:04,926 --> 00:01:07,234 programs that really exemplify some of the 28 00:01:07,234 --> 00:01:09,614 best practices for ending the cycle of 29 00:01:09,614 --> 00:01:12,994 sexual violence that we often see. Lydia 30 00:01:12,994 --> 00:01:15,486 is smart. She graduated with Bachelor of 31 00:01:15,486 --> 00:01:17,566 Arts in Gender, Women and Development 32 00:01:17,566 --> 00:01:19,110 Studies and has over eight years 33 00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:20,994 experience in program design and community 34 00:01:20,994 --> 00:01:23,682 outreach. So she has so much knowledge and 35 00:01:23,682 --> 00:01:26,086 wisdom. But she's the author of a book 36 00:01:26,086 --> 00:01:27,942 that she just released called Pendo's 37 00:01:27,942 --> 00:01:30,454 Power. It's a children's book that's 38 00:01:30,454 --> 00:01:31,894 illustrated and it helps children 39 00:01:31,894 --> 00:01:36,106 recognize and report sexual abuse. So this 40 00:01:36,106 --> 00:01:37,690 book is really resonating with a lot of 41 00:01:37,690 --> 00:01:40,118 people. She recently did a book release 42 00:01:40,118 --> 00:01:44,574 here in the San Francisco Bay area. And 43 00:01:44,574 --> 00:01:48,474 just her voice, her story, her ability to 44 00:01:48,474 --> 00:01:51,934 communicate it, and her desire and work to 45 00:01:51,934 --> 00:01:53,906 help children and parents and caregivers 46 00:01:53,906 --> 00:01:56,494 and teachers and people in faith 47 00:01:56,494 --> 00:01:58,466 institutions and communities understand 48 00:01:58,466 --> 00:02:00,066 how to have conversations with children 49 00:02:00,066 --> 00:02:03,060 and how to help them see their own power. 50 00:02:03,060 --> 00:02:05,734 To understand consent, understand that 51 00:02:05,734 --> 00:02:10,614 they can say no, understand their power to 52 00:02:10,614 --> 00:02:13,510 not be in situations that make them feel 53 00:02:13,510 --> 00:02:16,854 unsafe, and giving power to children again 54 00:02:16,854 --> 00:02:20,086 to understand what boundaries are right. 55 00:02:20,086 --> 00:02:22,246 So this was her book is all about when 56 00:02:22,246 --> 00:02:24,390 she's not working. You can find her 57 00:02:24,390 --> 00:02:26,666 dancing to Afrobeat with her three year 58 00:02:26,666 --> 00:02:29,482 old daughter and trying out new recipes as 59 00:02:29,482 --> 00:02:32,126 well. And so I love that she's bringing 60 00:02:32,126 --> 00:02:33,902 all of herself into this conversation 61 00:02:33,902 --> 00:02:38,126 today and we're going to go there. So this 62 00:02:38,126 --> 00:02:40,334 is your trigger warning. If this is 63 00:02:40,334 --> 00:02:42,798 something that would be too much for you 64 00:02:42,798 --> 00:02:45,066 today, it is okay to not listen. It is 65 00:02:45,066 --> 00:02:48,754 okay to take it in chunks. It is okay to 66 00:02:48,754 --> 00:02:51,058 just take long breaks and go for a walk 67 00:02:51,058 --> 00:02:53,330 and get some sunshine or take deep 68 00:02:53,330 --> 00:02:55,526 breaths. If you have experienced abuse of 69 00:02:55,526 --> 00:02:59,110 any kind and particular sexual abuse, 70 00:02:59,110 --> 00:03:02,038 yeah, listener discretion is advised. 71 00:03:02,038 --> 00:03:04,722 Also, the sponsor of this podcast is 72 00:03:04,722 --> 00:03:07,426 BetterHelp. So if you are somebody who has 73 00:03:07,426 --> 00:03:10,566 walked through abuse or walked through any 74 00:03:10,566 --> 00:03:12,586 trauma of any kind or just needs help from 75 00:03:12,586 --> 00:03:14,422 a professional to talk through some 76 00:03:14,422 --> 00:03:17,290 relational difficulties or stress or grief 77 00:03:17,290 --> 00:03:20,174 loss. BetterHelp.com is the sponsor of 78 00:03:20,174 --> 00:03:26,362 this podcast and if you go to. WW dot. 79 00:03:26,362 --> 00:03:28,702 BetterHelp Difference today, you'll get 80 00:03:28,702 --> 00:03:31,946 10% off your first month. I myself have 81 00:03:31,946 --> 00:03:35,146 largely benefited from a therapist through 82 00:03:35,146 --> 00:03:36,306 BetterHelp who's helped me work through a 83 00:03:36,306 --> 00:03:38,942 lot of grounding techniques and somatic 84 00:03:38,942 --> 00:03:41,266 therapy, understanding how to just shake 85 00:03:41,266 --> 00:03:43,682 it off sometimes like we see the animals 86 00:03:43,682 --> 00:03:45,666 do. I've gone and sat near the lake near 87 00:03:45,666 --> 00:03:47,266 my house and watched ducks just kind of 88 00:03:47,266 --> 00:03:49,766 shake water off their back. All things 89 00:03:49,766 --> 00:03:51,686 that my therapist at BetterHelp has helped 90 00:03:51,686 --> 00:03:55,154 me to do to help my own body process some 91 00:03:55,154 --> 00:03:57,202 traumatic experiences in a workplace 92 00:03:57,202 --> 00:03:59,618 environment where I walk through some 93 00:03:59,618 --> 00:04:02,910 psychological and spiritual abuse and 94 00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:04,906 emotional and verbal abuse there. And so I 95 00:04:04,906 --> 00:04:06,742 know that some of you listening to this 96 00:04:06,742 --> 00:04:08,282 podcast have walked through that type of 97 00:04:08,282 --> 00:04:10,842 thing and if you're one of them, please 98 00:04:10,842 --> 00:04:14,606 check out BetterHelp.com Difference Today 99 00:04:14,606 --> 00:04:17,566 to get 10% off your first month. So happy 100 00:04:17,566 --> 00:04:19,486 to bring to the show today and introduce 101 00:04:19,486 --> 00:04:22,350 to you somebody who is making a huge 102 00:04:22,350 --> 00:04:24,498 difference in the world. So let's give a 103 00:04:24,498 --> 00:04:33,570 very warm welcome today to Lydia Matioli. 104 00:04:33,570 --> 00:04:36,454 Hello, Lydia. And a very warm welcome to 105 00:04:36,454 --> 00:04:39,010 the World of Difference podcast today. And 106 00:04:39,010 --> 00:04:42,054 congratulations on your book release. 107 00:04:42,054 --> 00:04:44,134 Thank you. Thank you so much for having 108 00:04:44,134 --> 00:04:46,434 me. Well, it's very exciting. And we were 109 00:04:46,434 --> 00:04:49,146 connected by someone we both know. And I'm 110 00:04:49,146 --> 00:04:51,100 really excited to have this conversation 111 00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:54,214 today because not only are you somebody 112 00:04:54,214 --> 00:04:58,294 who's a survivor of some very difficult 113 00:04:58,294 --> 00:05:00,486 experiences, but you've also allowed those 114 00:05:00,486 --> 00:05:02,446 experiences to shape you into someone who 115 00:05:02,446 --> 00:05:06,014 wants to make an impact and help others in 116 00:05:06,014 --> 00:05:10,046 so many different ways. And our listeners 117 00:05:10,046 --> 00:05:12,510 all around the world really are all about 118 00:05:12,510 --> 00:05:15,262 that and so excited to sort of hear more 119 00:05:15,262 --> 00:05:16,926 about your background, some of the things 120 00:05:16,926 --> 00:05:20,254 you've walked through and why you ended up 121 00:05:20,254 --> 00:05:22,162 writing this book. But I guess my first 122 00:05:22,162 --> 00:05:24,114 question for you is tell us a little bit 123 00:05:24,114 --> 00:05:27,466 about your background. Who are you, Lydia 124 00:05:27,466 --> 00:05:30,754 Mattioli? And what is it about your 125 00:05:30,754 --> 00:05:32,520 background that makes you who you are 126 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,742 today? Awesome. Again, thank you for 127 00:05:36,742 --> 00:05:39,250 having me. I'm super excited to have this 128 00:05:39,250 --> 00:05:44,234 conversation with you. So Lydia Matioli is 129 00:05:44,234 --> 00:05:50,362 a 29 year old. I am a mom to a beautiful 130 00:05:50,362 --> 00:05:55,638 three year old girl, and I currently lead 131 00:05:55,638 --> 00:05:59,006 programs at nonprofit called Freely Hope, 132 00:05:59,006 --> 00:06:02,186 which exists to end the cycle of sexual 133 00:06:02,186 --> 00:06:06,226 violence in Kenya and in Zambia. And just 134 00:06:06,226 --> 00:06:07,826 to share a little bit about my background, 135 00:06:07,826 --> 00:06:12,046 I was born and raised in Kibera, which is 136 00:06:12,046 --> 00:06:15,578 East Africa's largest slum. I think after 137 00:06:15,578 --> 00:06:17,846 soeto in South Africa, I think Kibera is 138 00:06:17,846 --> 00:06:22,840 next. It inhabits around 1 million plus 139 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:26,438 people. And so all my life I was inside 140 00:06:26,438 --> 00:06:29,178 there, I was born in there with all these 141 00:06:29,178 --> 00:06:33,254 people. There's a lot of scarcity. The 142 00:06:33,254 --> 00:06:35,946 environment is not that friendly if you 143 00:06:35,946 --> 00:06:40,538 look at the sewer system, the chaos, if 144 00:06:40,538 --> 00:06:43,710 you look at the roads, the infrastructure, 145 00:06:43,710 --> 00:06:46,462 generally, it's just a mess. It's a place 146 00:06:46,462 --> 00:06:50,394 where there's not a lot of access to 147 00:06:50,394 --> 00:06:52,110 resources, a lot of access to 148 00:06:52,110 --> 00:06:57,326 opportunities. And the main thing that I 149 00:06:57,326 --> 00:07:03,554 grew up seeing a lot was violence. So let 150 00:07:03,554 --> 00:07:06,514 me just start by sharing my own story. So 151 00:07:06,514 --> 00:07:10,678 when I was five, we lived at a place where 152 00:07:10,678 --> 00:07:12,646 I don't know if you have an idea of Kibra, 153 00:07:12,646 --> 00:07:14,966 but let me paint the picture for you. So, 154 00:07:14,966 --> 00:07:18,214 like I said, there are so many houses and 155 00:07:18,214 --> 00:07:20,442 so close to each other, it's just like 156 00:07:20,442 --> 00:07:23,866 single rooms, very close to each other, 157 00:07:23,866 --> 00:07:25,754 and we would call them close. So you'd 158 00:07:25,754 --> 00:07:32,346 find like ten houses in 1 m² doors next to 159 00:07:32,346 --> 00:07:34,046 each other and that kind of stuff. And I 160 00:07:34,046 --> 00:07:35,678 feel like that is one of the reasons why 161 00:07:35,678 --> 00:07:37,838 we had a lot of violence happening. 162 00:07:37,838 --> 00:07:40,190 Because you're so close to each other in 163 00:07:40,190 --> 00:07:43,434 proximity, a lot of things are happening 164 00:07:43,434 --> 00:07:45,666 behind the shadows. So when I was five, 165 00:07:45,666 --> 00:07:48,914 there was this guy who was our neighbor. 166 00:07:48,914 --> 00:07:53,010 He was actually man of God. He was a 167 00:07:53,010 --> 00:07:56,610 pastor. This man kids used to love being 168 00:07:56,610 --> 00:07:58,982 around this guy a lot, a lot at that time, 169 00:07:58,982 --> 00:08:02,614 looking back now that I remember, I'm like 170 00:08:02,614 --> 00:08:04,646 so one time he called me into his shop and 171 00:08:04,646 --> 00:08:08,474 he started touching me inappropriately all 172 00:08:08,474 --> 00:08:14,810 over my body. And this almost escalated 173 00:08:14,810 --> 00:08:17,302 further, but then, thank goodness, my 174 00:08:17,302 --> 00:08:19,306 sister was looking for me to have lunch. 175 00:08:19,306 --> 00:08:21,054 And so my sister was calling out for my 176 00:08:21,054 --> 00:08:24,062 name outside, like, Lydia, Lydia. And then 177 00:08:24,062 --> 00:08:28,026 when the man had my sister, he stopped, 178 00:08:28,026 --> 00:08:31,200 grabbed a lollipop, gave it to me, and was 179 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:36,818 like, I went out, met my sister. She 180 00:08:36,818 --> 00:08:40,722 looked concerned, but she didn't know what 181 00:08:40,722 --> 00:08:42,514 to ask or like, she didn't know what to 182 00:08:42,514 --> 00:08:44,434 tell me. I think I remember the only thing 183 00:08:44,434 --> 00:08:46,562 she asked me was like, what were you doing 184 00:08:46,562 --> 00:08:48,806 then? I was like, oh, uncle called me to 185 00:08:48,806 --> 00:08:51,014 give me a suite because I didn't even know 186 00:08:51,014 --> 00:08:54,870 what abuse was. I could not comprehend it. 187 00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:56,962 So, yeah, that was the end of that 188 00:08:56,962 --> 00:08:59,994 conversation between me and my sister. So 189 00:08:59,994 --> 00:09:04,294 pretty much growing up, I was exposed to 190 00:09:04,294 --> 00:09:09,366 sexual abuse in that way. Yeah. So when my 191 00:09:09,366 --> 00:09:12,254 sister found me, we didn't talk much about 192 00:09:12,254 --> 00:09:15,214 the situation, and yeah, we just left it 193 00:09:15,214 --> 00:09:17,854 at that. Moved on with life, like many 194 00:09:17,854 --> 00:09:20,846 other cases happening in Kibra. And then 195 00:09:20,846 --> 00:09:23,666 when I was 16 years old, my best friend 196 00:09:23,666 --> 00:09:26,850 was gang raped. We were in high school, 197 00:09:26,850 --> 00:09:29,326 and she was gang raped at the very same 198 00:09:29,326 --> 00:09:33,314 alley we used every day to go to school. 199 00:09:33,314 --> 00:09:37,638 Three men grabbed her and pulled her in my 200 00:09:37,638 --> 00:09:40,306 room and raped her. And because of the 201 00:09:40,306 --> 00:09:44,774 culture of silence that existed in Kiba, 202 00:09:44,774 --> 00:09:48,342 she didn't know whom to tell. And she 203 00:09:48,342 --> 00:09:50,890 tried talking to the dad. Like, when that 204 00:09:50,890 --> 00:09:53,514 happened, that same day when she went back 205 00:09:53,514 --> 00:09:55,366 home, she tried telling the dad, but the 206 00:09:55,366 --> 00:09:59,660 dad was just, like, shaming her and being, 207 00:09:59,660 --> 00:10:02,298 like, there with your boyfriend, and here 208 00:10:02,298 --> 00:10:04,030 you're trying to say that you've been 209 00:10:04,030 --> 00:10:06,506 raped. So she shut down. She completely 210 00:10:06,506 --> 00:10:10,666 shut down until she started getting side 211 00:10:10,666 --> 00:10:13,570 effects from the abuse. A couple of days 212 00:10:13,570 --> 00:10:18,430 later, she started having infections. Her 213 00:10:18,430 --> 00:10:21,330 skin started feeling itchy, like she got 214 00:10:21,330 --> 00:10:23,602 bad infections. And that's when she told 215 00:10:23,602 --> 00:10:25,474 me. And I was in high school. I didn't 216 00:10:25,474 --> 00:10:28,646 even know. What is this? Yes, we would 217 00:10:28,646 --> 00:10:32,166 hear about rape on TV here and there. We 218 00:10:32,166 --> 00:10:35,926 would hear stories. A girl was raped here. 219 00:10:35,926 --> 00:10:37,726 A girl was raped in this particular 220 00:10:37,726 --> 00:10:41,482 village. But we didn't know. No one told 221 00:10:41,482 --> 00:10:44,906 us how to respond or what to do. So when 222 00:10:44,906 --> 00:10:48,634 my friend told me that I couldn't think of 223 00:10:48,634 --> 00:10:52,526 I felt helpless, honestly. And so we told 224 00:10:52,526 --> 00:10:56,522 a teacher who helped us, who told us which 225 00:10:56,522 --> 00:10:58,346 hospital to go to. She did not even 226 00:10:58,346 --> 00:11:00,334 accompany us. She was just like, Go to 227 00:11:00,334 --> 00:11:03,602 this hospital. They'll help you. So my 228 00:11:03,602 --> 00:11:05,650 friend was treated, but that was it. 229 00:11:05,650 --> 00:11:09,202 Nothing. No counseling, no conversation 230 00:11:09,202 --> 00:11:15,730 after that. So that was a common trend 231 00:11:15,730 --> 00:11:19,074 that existed. Living in Kiba. I was 232 00:11:19,074 --> 00:11:22,440 surrounded by so much violence, and no one 233 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,894 was holding anyone accountable. No one was 234 00:11:25,894 --> 00:11:30,250 talking about it. No one was asking the 235 00:11:30,250 --> 00:11:32,714 survivors, what's happening with you? How 236 00:11:32,714 --> 00:11:37,050 did you feel? And my friend was never the 237 00:11:37,050 --> 00:11:40,102 same after that experience. She was never, 238 00:11:40,102 --> 00:11:44,442 ever the same. And I think that is what 239 00:11:44,442 --> 00:11:46,650 inspired me to start having these 240 00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:47,966 conversations while I was in school. In 241 00:11:47,966 --> 00:11:52,654 high school, so started a girls club where 242 00:11:52,654 --> 00:11:55,118 all the girls could come and meet every 243 00:11:55,118 --> 00:11:57,682 Tuesday. And we would just vent. Like, 244 00:11:57,682 --> 00:11:59,426 nothing would happen afterwards, but we 245 00:11:59,426 --> 00:12:02,100 would just vent. This is happening to my 246 00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:06,066 home, since this is happening with my mom. 247 00:12:06,066 --> 00:12:08,998 She's being bitten every day. So we held 248 00:12:08,998 --> 00:12:13,270 space for a lot of stories within my 249 00:12:13,270 --> 00:12:15,606 school community. And as much as we didn't 250 00:12:15,606 --> 00:12:19,626 do anything about it, we felt relieved. I 251 00:12:19,626 --> 00:12:22,346 think just talking about it helped release 252 00:12:22,346 --> 00:12:25,706 some of the weight that came with holding 253 00:12:25,706 --> 00:12:30,326 all of these. And I like to say that is 254 00:12:30,326 --> 00:12:36,414 where my advocacy work began in high. So 255 00:12:36,414 --> 00:12:38,174 right after I graduated high school, I 256 00:12:38,174 --> 00:12:40,570 knew I wanted to do something along those 257 00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:42,526 lines. But again, in Kiba, once you're 258 00:12:42,526 --> 00:12:46,222 done with high school, that is it for your 259 00:12:46,222 --> 00:12:48,100 parents. They're like, We've done our 260 00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:52,482 best. So you figure out what you want to 261 00:12:52,482 --> 00:12:55,438 do next with your life. Yes, I wanted to 262 00:12:55,438 --> 00:12:58,498 go to college, but I didn't know how. I 263 00:12:58,498 --> 00:13:00,774 didn't have the means. So I had to figure 264 00:13:00,774 --> 00:13:06,680 out what to do at that time to be able to 265 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:13,514 just pursue my dreams and to get by. So, 266 00:13:13,514 --> 00:13:16,250 yeah, I started looking for volunteer 267 00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:19,126 opportunities in Kiba. I got a chance to 268 00:13:19,126 --> 00:13:21,770 volunteer with a couple of local 269 00:13:21,770 --> 00:13:25,934 organizations, and this was in 2013, 2014, 270 00:13:25,934 --> 00:13:29,402 because I finished high school in 2012, so 271 00:13:29,402 --> 00:13:34,546 2013, I was volunteering 2014, the same. 272 00:13:34,546 --> 00:13:37,310 And the founder of the particular 273 00:13:37,310 --> 00:13:40,702 organization that I was volunteering in in 274 00:13:40,702 --> 00:13:45,814 2014 knew about my story. She knew about 275 00:13:45,814 --> 00:13:49,234 how passionate I was in matters ending 276 00:13:49,234 --> 00:13:53,106 sexual violence. And so he's the one who 277 00:13:53,106 --> 00:13:55,330 connected me to Freelan Hope, the 278 00:13:55,330 --> 00:13:58,118 organization that I serve with. Because at 279 00:13:58,118 --> 00:14:00,406 that time, Freely in Hope was giving 280 00:14:00,406 --> 00:14:07,446 academic scholarships to so, like. And you 281 00:14:07,446 --> 00:14:10,102 growing up in Cabera and having all those 282 00:14:10,102 --> 00:14:12,862 experiences, and now you're at Freely and 283 00:14:12,862 --> 00:14:14,286 Hope. Yeah. Tell us a little more about 284 00:14:14,286 --> 00:14:15,886 the organization's mission and some of 285 00:14:15,886 --> 00:14:17,406 these key initiatives you're involved in 286 00:14:17,406 --> 00:14:22,238 to combat this sexual. Freely and Hope is 287 00:14:22,238 --> 00:14:24,734 a nonprofit that works to end sexual 288 00:14:24,734 --> 00:14:27,794 violence in Kenya and Zambia. And how we 289 00:14:27,794 --> 00:14:32,046 do that is by providing academic 290 00:14:32,046 --> 00:14:34,130 scholarships to survivors of sexual 291 00:14:34,130 --> 00:14:36,806 violence. And these academic scholarships 292 00:14:36,806 --> 00:14:39,014 are very holistic in the sense that it's 293 00:14:39,014 --> 00:14:43,122 not just paying school fees. There's 294 00:14:43,122 --> 00:14:46,246 counseling happening just to combat all 295 00:14:46,246 --> 00:14:50,838 the mental health issues that come with 296 00:14:50,838 --> 00:14:54,134 trauma. The safe housing involved, where 297 00:14:54,134 --> 00:14:56,646 several occasions we've had to move the 298 00:14:56,646 --> 00:14:58,886 girls from the spaces where they live in, 299 00:14:58,886 --> 00:15:01,514 girls who are being abused by their dads, 300 00:15:01,514 --> 00:15:03,886 by their uncles, by people who are taking 301 00:15:03,886 --> 00:15:07,034 care of them. So we've had to move them to 302 00:15:07,034 --> 00:15:10,126 safe spaces. Then there's the legal aspect 303 00:15:10,126 --> 00:15:13,154 of it, where some of the survivors that 304 00:15:13,154 --> 00:15:16,610 come into the community have pending legal 305 00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:20,546 cases. And so, yeah, we have to find all 306 00:15:20,546 --> 00:15:23,502 the legal processes. Having the lawyers 307 00:15:23,502 --> 00:15:26,786 involved, following up with court cases, 308 00:15:26,786 --> 00:15:32,390 it's intense. And there's also mentorship 309 00:15:32,390 --> 00:15:36,962 involved because we want these girls to 310 00:15:36,962 --> 00:15:38,582 thrive in their calling because most of 311 00:15:38,582 --> 00:15:40,226 them, when they come into the community, 312 00:15:40,226 --> 00:15:42,010 they're like, I want to be a lawyer so 313 00:15:42,010 --> 00:15:43,834 that whatever happened to me cannot happen 314 00:15:43,834 --> 00:15:48,010 to anyone else. I want to be a doctor to 315 00:15:48,010 --> 00:15:50,262 support other survivors, all of that. And 316 00:15:50,262 --> 00:15:53,694 so in wanting to just nurture this desire 317 00:15:53,694 --> 00:15:56,126 and tap into these desires, there's a lot 318 00:15:56,126 --> 00:15:59,262 of leadership development that goes into 319 00:15:59,262 --> 00:16:02,686 this process. Just exposing them to spaces 320 00:16:02,686 --> 00:16:06,278 that will help them grow that desire, 321 00:16:06,278 --> 00:16:08,930 spaces that will give them an idea of what 322 00:16:08,930 --> 00:16:13,282 it means to work in a law firm, what it 323 00:16:13,282 --> 00:16:16,566 means to be an activist or an advocate in 324 00:16:16,566 --> 00:16:19,394 the community, all of that. And most 325 00:16:19,394 --> 00:16:20,918 importantly, I think, just having that 326 00:16:20,918 --> 00:16:23,014 community of belonging, interacting with 327 00:16:23,014 --> 00:16:27,586 other survivors, hearing their stories, 328 00:16:27,586 --> 00:16:30,474 how they overcame trauma, how they're 329 00:16:30,474 --> 00:16:33,098 doing in their healing journey, that plays 330 00:16:33,098 --> 00:16:38,954 a big role in helping survivors just get 331 00:16:38,954 --> 00:16:41,274 from that point of helplessness and 332 00:16:41,274 --> 00:16:43,326 despair to this place where they're taking 333 00:16:43,326 --> 00:16:49,934 their power back. Yeah, I know that there 334 00:16:49,934 --> 00:16:52,990 are so many things culturally in every 335 00:16:52,990 --> 00:16:57,406 culture around sexual violence that often 336 00:16:57,406 --> 00:17:00,558 ends in silencing of the survivors and 337 00:17:00,558 --> 00:17:03,326 centering, the one who the perpetrators, 338 00:17:03,326 --> 00:17:05,254 mostly because there's so many dynamics 339 00:17:05,254 --> 00:17:08,854 right there's the patriarchy, which often 340 00:17:08,854 --> 00:17:11,014 is in most cultures, we're dealing with 341 00:17:11,014 --> 00:17:14,834 not all of them. And that layer of just 342 00:17:14,834 --> 00:17:18,362 censoring a man and his voice and then 343 00:17:18,362 --> 00:17:21,126 either silencing or just diminishing the 344 00:17:21,126 --> 00:17:23,642 voice of a female survivor, especially a 345 00:17:23,642 --> 00:17:26,074 young girl, and then the victim blaming. 346 00:17:26,074 --> 00:17:29,562 So, yeah, explain maybe some of your own 347 00:17:29,562 --> 00:17:31,610 personal experience of observing that with 348 00:17:31,610 --> 00:17:33,594 yourself and your friends or how those 349 00:17:33,594 --> 00:17:35,482 dynamics are sort of tricky in the 350 00:17:35,482 --> 00:17:37,360 environment that people are trying to heal 351 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:41,294 from. Oh, yeah, we've definitely had to 352 00:17:41,294 --> 00:17:46,082 deal with a lot of cultural mindsets that 353 00:17:46,082 --> 00:17:49,534 really perpetrate this issue of sexual 354 00:17:49,534 --> 00:17:53,442 abuse. And one of them said, Patrick, if 355 00:17:53,442 --> 00:17:57,602 you go into my communities right now and 356 00:17:57,602 --> 00:17:59,758 talk to the men, most of them feel like 357 00:17:59,758 --> 00:18:01,942 it's married to have sex with a woman 358 00:18:01,942 --> 00:18:04,470 because this is what they've grown up 359 00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:08,806 hearing. They do not understand the whole 360 00:18:08,806 --> 00:18:11,850 concept of mutual respect, asking for 361 00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:15,974 consent, mutual understanding before 362 00:18:15,974 --> 00:18:20,790 engaging in any sexual act, because their 363 00:18:20,790 --> 00:18:22,610 forefathers did that. Their forefathers 364 00:18:22,610 --> 00:18:25,898 believed they had right over women. 365 00:18:25,898 --> 00:18:28,190 They've seen their dads doing that. And so 366 00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:30,974 they themselves are also stepping into 367 00:18:30,974 --> 00:18:34,946 that generational trend. And so that is 368 00:18:34,946 --> 00:18:41,006 one of the biggest factors as to why 369 00:18:41,006 --> 00:18:43,026 sexual violence is happening. And the sad 370 00:18:43,026 --> 00:18:45,842 thing is that even the women have been 371 00:18:45,842 --> 00:18:49,698 conditioned to start believing in these 372 00:18:49,698 --> 00:18:52,742 retrogressive beliefs. So you'll find even 373 00:18:52,742 --> 00:18:56,678 women themselves feel, no, it's a man, 374 00:18:56,678 --> 00:19:01,962 whatever man says, I'm supposed to. If a 375 00:19:01,962 --> 00:19:06,694 man says that my dressing tempted them to 376 00:19:06,694 --> 00:19:11,742 commit sexual abuse, then it's true. So 377 00:19:11,742 --> 00:19:15,726 this cultural belief has been so deep to 378 00:19:15,726 --> 00:19:17,870 the point where even women themselves 379 00:19:17,870 --> 00:19:22,670 started believing it. And this really 380 00:19:22,670 --> 00:19:26,526 escalated cases of abuse in my communities 381 00:19:26,526 --> 00:19:28,514 personally, where I come from. And so even 382 00:19:28,514 --> 00:19:31,198 with Freely and Hope going into these 383 00:19:31,198 --> 00:19:32,866 communities through our outreach programs, 384 00:19:32,866 --> 00:19:35,826 we had to do a lot of conversations with 385 00:19:35,826 --> 00:19:40,070 the men, with the boys, to help shift this 386 00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:43,734 mindset so that they start understanding 387 00:19:43,734 --> 00:19:45,414 that, you know what? You do not have the 388 00:19:45,414 --> 00:19:48,422 right to have sex with a woman. A woman is 389 00:19:48,422 --> 00:19:51,894 a human being just like you, with the same 390 00:19:51,894 --> 00:19:54,186 rights, just like you. And so there's a 391 00:19:54,186 --> 00:19:58,250 lot of respect that needs to be there. You 392 00:19:58,250 --> 00:20:03,182 need to be mindful of what they say. So, 393 00:20:03,182 --> 00:20:05,454 yeah, that is part of the work that we've 394 00:20:05,454 --> 00:20:09,006 been doing to really push for that shift 395 00:20:09,006 --> 00:20:11,470 in mindset because that's where the root 396 00:20:11,470 --> 00:20:15,346 is. Honestly, that is the root cause of 397 00:20:15,346 --> 00:20:17,410 all of this violence that we're 398 00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:20,798 experiencing in Kiba, in Nairobi, in 399 00:20:20,798 --> 00:20:25,170 Kenya. Really? Yeah, it's so 400 00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:27,846 heartbreaking. And I think everywhere 401 00:20:27,846 --> 00:20:30,822 there are so many stereotypes that people 402 00:20:30,822 --> 00:20:35,346 fall into and some of those are very even 403 00:20:35,346 --> 00:20:37,480 entrenched in certain faith communities. 404 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,410 So you mentioned earlier that your abuser 405 00:20:42,410 --> 00:20:44,922 was a part of a faith community. And so, 406 00:20:44,922 --> 00:20:47,994 yeah, I would be interested to know, do 407 00:20:47,994 --> 00:20:49,770 you still identify as part of a faith 408 00:20:49,770 --> 00:20:51,662 community? And if so, has that journey 409 00:20:51,662 --> 00:20:53,760 been difficult for you in light of all of 410 00:20:53,760 --> 00:21:03,474 this? That's a very good question. Well, 411 00:21:03,474 --> 00:21:07,810 my experiences and I think working with 412 00:21:07,810 --> 00:21:11,810 survivors, of course, has really affected 413 00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:14,562 my interaction with the faith communities 414 00:21:14,562 --> 00:21:16,914 because trust me, most of the cases that 415 00:21:16,914 --> 00:21:21,750 I've had, a lot of perpetrators are faith 416 00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:26,840 leaders. And that kind of just affected 417 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,834 how I connect with God through that 418 00:21:29,834 --> 00:21:33,050 community, honestly. So it's been so long 419 00:21:33,050 --> 00:21:39,146 since I went to church because every time 420 00:21:39,146 --> 00:21:43,358 I was in charge, I would battle with the 421 00:21:43,358 --> 00:21:46,586 thought that this man up here could be a 422 00:21:46,586 --> 00:21:51,118 hypocrite, this man up here could be one 423 00:21:51,118 --> 00:21:52,862 of the perpetrators. And I know it's not 424 00:21:52,862 --> 00:21:55,586 fair to have a blanket judgment and to 425 00:21:55,586 --> 00:21:59,166 have that bias over faith leaders, but I 426 00:21:59,166 --> 00:22:01,218 can't help it. It's part of the trauma 427 00:22:01,218 --> 00:22:03,746 that I have from my experience and from 428 00:22:03,746 --> 00:22:05,894 the experiences of people who are very 429 00:22:05,894 --> 00:22:09,574 close to me. So, yeah, my relationship is 430 00:22:09,574 --> 00:22:14,246 not the same. I struggle to be at church, 431 00:22:14,246 --> 00:22:18,550 I struggle to be in community with faith 432 00:22:18,550 --> 00:22:21,402 leaders. But I've also learned to find my 433 00:22:21,402 --> 00:22:25,914 own ways of connecting with God that do 434 00:22:25,914 --> 00:22:30,294 not necessarily involve me not being a 435 00:22:30,294 --> 00:22:33,262 charge. And I know I'll get there someday, 436 00:22:33,262 --> 00:22:35,806 but right now I am not at that point where 437 00:22:35,806 --> 00:22:40,906 I can just comfortably be at charge and 438 00:22:40,906 --> 00:22:42,494 commune with other believers the way I 439 00:22:42,494 --> 00:22:45,394 used to. And I know that it's going to 440 00:22:45,394 --> 00:22:49,666 take time and I'm just being patient with 441 00:22:49,666 --> 00:22:52,626 myself and with the entire process. But 442 00:22:52,626 --> 00:22:54,466 yes, I do believe I'm glad. That you're 443 00:22:54,466 --> 00:22:56,838 being patient with yourself. That's very 444 00:22:56,838 --> 00:22:59,766 good. Yeah, I think that many listening in 445 00:22:59,766 --> 00:23:02,946 this community, and it's not exclusively 446 00:23:02,946 --> 00:23:05,394 Christians that I'm talking about. In all 447 00:23:05,394 --> 00:23:08,306 faith communities, we see people who've 448 00:23:08,306 --> 00:23:11,018 walked through abuse in their faith 449 00:23:11,018 --> 00:23:13,030 community, whether it's in Islam or 450 00:23:13,030 --> 00:23:16,838 Judaism or if they're Buddhist or Hindu or 451 00:23:16,838 --> 00:23:19,210 Christian or even if they have no faith 452 00:23:19,210 --> 00:23:20,486 community. But it's been a community 453 00:23:20,486 --> 00:23:22,586 that's been spiritual in some way. And 454 00:23:22,586 --> 00:23:26,138 you've seen a leader be abusive and then 455 00:23:26,138 --> 00:23:28,026 you've seen it covered up by people in the 456 00:23:28,026 --> 00:23:30,894 faith community, it doesn't feel safe. 457 00:23:30,894 --> 00:23:32,574 Right? And there are reasons for that. And 458 00:23:32,574 --> 00:23:35,742 as survivors or even people who might have 459 00:23:35,742 --> 00:23:37,666 secondary trauma, who have friends who've 460 00:23:37,666 --> 00:23:39,954 been abused, it doesn't feel safe. Even 461 00:23:39,954 --> 00:23:41,762 for those friends when they've watched a 462 00:23:41,762 --> 00:23:44,242 cover up happen and watched a perpetrator 463 00:23:44,242 --> 00:23:47,380 be centered and his story be the main 464 00:23:47,380 --> 00:23:51,206 story, those are red flags for people. And 465 00:23:51,206 --> 00:23:53,122 so I think part of caring well for 466 00:23:53,122 --> 00:23:55,014 ourselves and our own well being is to 467 00:23:55,014 --> 00:23:57,622 make decisions like you're making to find 468 00:23:57,622 --> 00:23:59,606 ways to express your faith and experience 469 00:23:59,606 --> 00:24:01,858 your faith in ways that you're safe and 470 00:24:01,858 --> 00:24:03,206 you're caring for yourself and you're 471 00:24:03,206 --> 00:24:04,954 protecting yourself. So there's a lot of 472 00:24:04,954 --> 00:24:06,426 people in this community that understand 473 00:24:06,426 --> 00:24:08,266 that and are walking through that. So 474 00:24:08,266 --> 00:24:10,554 thank you for being vulnerable to share 475 00:24:10,554 --> 00:24:12,378 that. But I know that you also really want 476 00:24:12,378 --> 00:24:13,962 to make an impact, especially for 477 00:24:13,962 --> 00:24:15,982 children, because your abuse happened as a 478 00:24:15,982 --> 00:24:17,966 child at five years old. So tell us a 479 00:24:17,966 --> 00:24:19,758 little bit about. Your book Pendo's Power. 480 00:24:19,758 --> 00:24:21,754 I know you're hoping to help children 481 00:24:21,754 --> 00:24:24,358 recognize and report sexual abuse. So what 482 00:24:24,358 --> 00:24:25,874 inspired you to even think about writing 483 00:24:25,874 --> 00:24:27,966 this book? And how are you seeing it 484 00:24:27,966 --> 00:24:29,460 received in the communities where you 485 00:24:29,460 --> 00:24:34,942 work? So Bendosau was inspired by my past 486 00:24:34,942 --> 00:24:36,806 experiences growing up as a child in Kiba. 487 00:24:36,806 --> 00:24:39,622 And I've shared a little bit about that. 488 00:24:39,622 --> 00:24:43,382 Also my current experiences as a mother. I 489 00:24:43,382 --> 00:24:46,454 have a three year old daughter, and when I 490 00:24:46,454 --> 00:24:49,318 had her, I was so scared. When I gave 491 00:24:49,318 --> 00:24:52,060 birth to my daughter, being a first time 492 00:24:52,060 --> 00:24:57,020 mom, being a single mom, I was so scared 493 00:24:57,020 --> 00:25:00,778 of what she's going to be exposed to. And 494 00:25:00,778 --> 00:25:03,370 I think when I had Amir, that's when the 495 00:25:03,370 --> 00:25:06,106 realization of my own abuse started 496 00:25:06,106 --> 00:25:10,286 dawning on me. I had not processed it. And 497 00:25:10,286 --> 00:25:12,794 so when she came, it was just like, oh my 498 00:25:12,794 --> 00:25:15,360 goodness, what have I done? What have I 499 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:19,362 done? And I had Amira around the same time 500 00:25:19,362 --> 00:25:21,906 when COVID was happening because she came 501 00:25:21,906 --> 00:25:27,702 in 2019. And then COVID happened 2020 502 00:25:27,702 --> 00:25:30,486 because she was born in December. So we 503 00:25:30,486 --> 00:25:32,326 were at home, we were listening to all of 504 00:25:32,326 --> 00:25:34,642 these things that were happening. Cases of 505 00:25:34,642 --> 00:25:37,706 abuse escalating. Children being abused in 506 00:25:37,706 --> 00:25:40,026 their homes, women being abused by people 507 00:25:40,026 --> 00:25:43,722 they are living with. And oh my goodness, 508 00:25:43,722 --> 00:25:48,314 I struggled sleeping. I battled with the 509 00:25:48,314 --> 00:25:53,162 thought that Amir could be exposed to a 510 00:25:53,162 --> 00:25:56,830 perpetrator anytime because it was not 511 00:25:56,830 --> 00:25:59,038 like strange people. It was people that 512 00:25:59,038 --> 00:26:02,750 were super close to her that are 513 00:26:02,750 --> 00:26:06,466 potentially the abusers. And so I wanted 514 00:26:06,466 --> 00:26:08,994 to do something about it. I wanted to 515 00:26:08,994 --> 00:26:11,346 create a resource that would help children 516 00:26:11,346 --> 00:26:14,718 like Amir, children living in different 517 00:26:14,718 --> 00:26:16,406 parts of Kenya, children living in 518 00:26:16,406 --> 00:26:18,566 different parts of the world, to be able 519 00:26:18,566 --> 00:26:22,806 to learn about these key concepts early so 520 00:26:22,806 --> 00:26:25,414 that they know when their body boundaries 521 00:26:25,414 --> 00:26:28,386 are being crossed. Because for me, I 522 00:26:28,386 --> 00:26:31,450 didn't know. No one told me about body 523 00:26:31,450 --> 00:26:34,474 boundaries. And the many women, the many, 524 00:26:34,474 --> 00:26:37,274 many girls that have spoken to me about 525 00:26:37,274 --> 00:26:38,906 being survivors of child sexual abuse, 526 00:26:38,906 --> 00:26:41,674 they didn't know. So I wanted to give my 527 00:26:41,674 --> 00:26:45,230 own child and other children that gift of 528 00:26:45,230 --> 00:26:48,190 knowing. And I know it's crazy because 529 00:26:48,190 --> 00:26:50,254 children are supposed to live in a bubble 530 00:26:50,254 --> 00:26:51,818 like they are kids, for heaven's sake. 531 00:26:51,818 --> 00:26:53,342 They're not supposed to be thinking about 532 00:26:53,342 --> 00:26:57,266 these things. But we also cannot be blind 533 00:26:57,266 --> 00:26:59,186 to the fact that bad things are happening 534 00:26:59,186 --> 00:27:02,130 in the world and the fact that we will not 535 00:27:02,130 --> 00:27:05,406 always be with them. So it's better for 536 00:27:05,406 --> 00:27:09,270 them to learn and know that they can 537 00:27:09,270 --> 00:27:12,662 actually use their voice to express when 538 00:27:12,662 --> 00:27:14,246 something is happening to them. And so 539 00:27:14,246 --> 00:27:16,834 that is what inspired the creation of 540 00:27:16,834 --> 00:27:20,634 Pendos Power. So it's a book that teaches 541 00:27:20,634 --> 00:27:23,018 children as young as four years old, all 542 00:27:23,018 --> 00:27:27,050 the way to twelve years old, about body 543 00:27:27,050 --> 00:27:30,966 safety. This is my body. These are my 544 00:27:30,966 --> 00:27:33,006 private parts. No one is supposed to touch 545 00:27:33,006 --> 00:27:35,594 my private part. If someone touches my 546 00:27:35,594 --> 00:27:37,760 private part, these are the people that I 547 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,894 tell consent. I have the right to say yes 548 00:27:40,894 --> 00:27:43,006 or no, whether it's an adult, whether it's 549 00:27:43,006 --> 00:27:46,942 a child, I have the right to say it and be 550 00:27:46,942 --> 00:27:49,694 firm in my decision, especially when it 551 00:27:49,694 --> 00:27:52,366 involves my body. So these are the 552 00:27:52,366 --> 00:27:56,646 concepts that I wanted to bring out in the 553 00:27:56,646 --> 00:27:59,480 book, especially because growing up as a 554 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,166 child, we were taught to always respect 555 00:28:02,166 --> 00:28:07,014 the elders. When the elder calls, you go, 556 00:28:07,014 --> 00:28:09,066 which is a good thing. But I feel like 557 00:28:09,066 --> 00:28:15,820 some perpetrators use this element to 558 00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:19,046 really get to kids because they're 559 00:28:19,046 --> 00:28:21,354 vulnerable, they're innocent, they cannot 560 00:28:21,354 --> 00:28:24,098 speak up for themselves. And so through 561 00:28:24,098 --> 00:28:26,366 Pendofa, I wanted children to know that 562 00:28:26,366 --> 00:28:29,742 their voice is powerful, that there are 563 00:28:29,742 --> 00:28:31,454 people out here who care about them, who 564 00:28:31,454 --> 00:28:34,434 care about their safety and are willing to 565 00:28:34,434 --> 00:28:39,486 do anything to protect them. And the book 566 00:28:39,486 --> 00:28:43,220 features a six year old girl from Kiber 567 00:28:43,220 --> 00:28:50,866 who well educated about these things. Like 568 00:28:50,866 --> 00:28:53,222 Pendo's mom and dad did a good job 569 00:28:53,222 --> 00:28:55,846 starting these conversations early because 570 00:28:55,846 --> 00:28:59,130 they were aware of the risks. And so 571 00:28:59,130 --> 00:29:02,650 because Pendo knows she is helping her 572 00:29:02,650 --> 00:29:07,558 friends Bahati and Know call out different 573 00:29:07,558 --> 00:29:09,820 kinds of abuse that they've been exposed 574 00:29:09,820 --> 00:29:12,926 to in the community. So that's pretty much 575 00:29:12,926 --> 00:29:15,680 what the book is about. We wanted it to be 576 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,762 very simple and fun, so we used a lot of 577 00:29:20,762 --> 00:29:24,082 colorful illustrations to just help 578 00:29:24,082 --> 00:29:27,140 children connect and resonate with the 579 00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:31,794 content. So far, it's just been amazing to 580 00:29:31,794 --> 00:29:34,018 see the response. It's been amazing to 581 00:29:34,018 --> 00:29:36,466 hear that kids are reading it, kids are 582 00:29:36,466 --> 00:29:39,942 connecting to the characters. Kids are 583 00:29:39,942 --> 00:29:42,454 saying, My voice is my power. Kids are 584 00:29:42,454 --> 00:29:45,366 saying it's okay not to keep it's not okay 585 00:29:45,366 --> 00:29:47,866 to keep secrets, things like that. So I'm 586 00:29:47,866 --> 00:29:52,262 just super grateful that the book is 587 00:29:52,262 --> 00:29:55,014 serving the purpose, like why I solely 588 00:29:55,014 --> 00:29:58,620 created it. I am getting feedback that it 589 00:29:58,620 --> 00:30:02,726 is. That'S amazing. What you've done is 590 00:30:02,726 --> 00:30:05,434 such a gift, and it's going to be so 591 00:30:05,434 --> 00:30:08,222 impactful, I'm sure, in prevention as the 592 00:30:08,222 --> 00:30:09,726 children read it, but also as the parents 593 00:30:09,726 --> 00:30:12,714 read it alongside. Because I think the 594 00:30:12,714 --> 00:30:14,754 nature of being a child in most cultures 595 00:30:14,754 --> 00:30:16,642 around the world is that there is this 596 00:30:16,642 --> 00:30:18,914 power dynamic between adults and children. 597 00:30:18,914 --> 00:30:24,322 And children are often at the receiving 598 00:30:24,322 --> 00:30:27,240 end of abuse of power in so many different 599 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,426 ways, just their voice being believed or 600 00:30:31,426 --> 00:30:34,774 listened to. There's a lot of people that 601 00:30:34,774 --> 00:30:36,962 would just think, well, children are so 602 00:30:36,962 --> 00:30:39,480 imaginative. They made this up. This isn't 603 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,262 real. And why would you say that about 604 00:30:42,262 --> 00:30:44,346 Uncle So and So, especially if they're 605 00:30:44,346 --> 00:30:46,454 like a pastor? And so there's so many 606 00:30:46,454 --> 00:30:47,866 stories, you and I probably both know, 607 00:30:47,866 --> 00:30:50,830 with that kind of narrative. But to help 608 00:30:50,830 --> 00:30:52,670 children understand that they have this 609 00:30:52,670 --> 00:30:54,974 power, I could imagine how reading that 610 00:30:54,974 --> 00:30:59,422 book as a child would feel so right, 611 00:30:59,422 --> 00:31:03,102 because we sort of, as children, long for 612 00:31:03,102 --> 00:31:05,182 people to believe us when something 613 00:31:05,182 --> 00:31:06,846 traumatic happens, just like we do when 614 00:31:06,846 --> 00:31:09,086 we're adults. But because the power 615 00:31:09,086 --> 00:31:10,802 dynamic between adult and children is 616 00:31:10,802 --> 00:31:15,342 often abused, those children often are so 617 00:31:15,342 --> 00:31:19,894 silenced. And so, yeah, as you've seen 618 00:31:19,894 --> 00:31:21,958 children and parents maybe walking through 619 00:31:21,958 --> 00:31:23,334 it together or reading it together, are 620 00:31:23,334 --> 00:31:25,046 there any stories or things that you can 621 00:31:25,046 --> 00:31:27,586 think of that are impactful or anything 622 00:31:27,586 --> 00:31:31,242 around that? Yeah, I think one of the most 623 00:31:31,242 --> 00:31:34,614 mind blowing things about this book is how 624 00:31:34,614 --> 00:31:37,980 it's not only just impacting children, but 625 00:31:37,980 --> 00:31:42,586 even the adults. I feel like most of the 626 00:31:42,586 --> 00:31:44,634 parents and caregivers that I am 627 00:31:44,634 --> 00:31:47,466 interacting with are kind of healing their 628 00:31:47,466 --> 00:31:50,926 inner child. They're going back to moments 629 00:31:50,926 --> 00:31:54,014 when they were children and reflecting on 630 00:31:54,014 --> 00:31:56,754 moments when they were abused and speaking 631 00:31:56,754 --> 00:32:00,994 up for the first time. So I think that for 632 00:32:00,994 --> 00:32:03,186 me has been everything. Knowing that, oh 633 00:32:03,186 --> 00:32:05,886 my goodness, so many parents and 634 00:32:05,886 --> 00:32:08,146 caregivers were carrying childhood trauma 635 00:32:08,146 --> 00:32:10,582 that they'd never processed with anyone. 636 00:32:10,582 --> 00:32:15,910 And this book is serving as an outlet for 637 00:32:15,910 --> 00:32:18,966 them and giving them the courage to just 638 00:32:18,966 --> 00:32:21,320 say, you know what? This happened to me 639 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,594 too. I have never told anyone about it, 640 00:32:25,594 --> 00:32:29,034 and thank you for creating this because 641 00:32:29,034 --> 00:32:32,314 now I can start working on my own healing 642 00:32:32,314 --> 00:32:34,846 and I can be there for my child and I know 643 00:32:34,846 --> 00:32:38,414 how I can respond if my child tells me 644 00:32:38,414 --> 00:32:40,894 about it. So I think that for me has been 645 00:32:40,894 --> 00:32:43,090 oh my goodness, it has been everything. 646 00:32:43,090 --> 00:32:47,794 Seeing people allowing themselves to feel 647 00:32:47,794 --> 00:32:51,300 some emotions that they never process and 648 00:32:51,300 --> 00:32:55,380 just looking for support to walk through 649 00:32:55,380 --> 00:32:58,934 that, it has been amazing. And the other 650 00:32:58,934 --> 00:33:02,390 thing that I've been super blessed to see 651 00:33:02,390 --> 00:33:05,190 is all the opportunities that Pendas Power 652 00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:09,782 has opened up in terms of us reaching a 653 00:33:09,782 --> 00:33:13,242 wider demographic. So initially when I 654 00:33:13,242 --> 00:33:16,026 started writing it, the target audience I 655 00:33:16,026 --> 00:33:19,226 had in mind was the kids. And that's why 656 00:33:19,226 --> 00:33:21,834 the book is a children's book. But also 657 00:33:21,834 --> 00:33:24,250 while I was doing research for it, I 658 00:33:24,250 --> 00:33:25,806 realized many parents were like, we do not 659 00:33:25,806 --> 00:33:29,226 have the tools and resources to have this 660 00:33:29,226 --> 00:33:31,774 conversation. We want to, but how do I 661 00:33:31,774 --> 00:33:33,918 start telling my child about private 662 00:33:33,918 --> 00:33:37,700 parts? Especially when culturally they 663 00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:40,258 themselves didn't get a chance to do that 664 00:33:40,258 --> 00:33:44,610 with their parents? It's taboo. It's 665 00:33:44,610 --> 00:33:47,238 inappropriate. And so even just listening 666 00:33:47,238 --> 00:33:51,234 to parents and the need got us to create a 667 00:33:51,234 --> 00:33:54,102 companion guide for the book. So the book 668 00:33:54,102 --> 00:33:57,506 comes with a companion guide. You scan a 669 00:33:57,506 --> 00:34:00,594 QR code at the back and it takes you to a 670 00:34:00,594 --> 00:34:03,606 companion guide that gives you teach on if 671 00:34:03,606 --> 00:34:05,226 you're talking about private parts, this 672 00:34:05,226 --> 00:34:07,354 is how you approach it. This is how you 673 00:34:07,354 --> 00:34:09,386 start from the familiar things. This is 674 00:34:09,386 --> 00:34:12,398 how you use teachable everyday moments in 675 00:34:12,398 --> 00:34:16,190 your family, in your interactions to model 676 00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:19,406 this conversation. So that in itself is a 677 00:34:19,406 --> 00:34:22,026 whole other resource that came from 678 00:34:22,026 --> 00:34:24,754 Pendant Power. And when we were launching 679 00:34:24,754 --> 00:34:28,210 the book, we also released a teacher's 680 00:34:28,210 --> 00:34:30,434 guide because teachers were like, we also 681 00:34:30,434 --> 00:34:34,030 want to be consistent in having these 682 00:34:34,030 --> 00:34:36,262 conversations at the school setting. We 683 00:34:36,262 --> 00:34:39,766 spend a lot of time with Know. So it would 684 00:34:39,766 --> 00:34:43,366 be. Good to also have that ingrained in 685 00:34:43,366 --> 00:34:47,266 the curriculum. So in partnership with 686 00:34:47,266 --> 00:34:49,690 Microsoft, we just created a teacher's 687 00:34:49,690 --> 00:34:53,686 guide that we'll be advertising. So that's 688 00:34:53,686 --> 00:34:55,594 creating an opportunity for us to scale 689 00:34:55,594 --> 00:34:59,274 and reach many more students, many, many 690 00:34:59,274 --> 00:35:01,706 more children and teachers from all over 691 00:35:01,706 --> 00:35:04,960 Kenya and beyond. So it's just been crazy 692 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,494 seeing all of these opportunities that are 693 00:35:08,494 --> 00:35:12,586 just coming up and it's like, oh wow. It 694 00:35:12,586 --> 00:35:14,786 was not just children. It was the parents, 695 00:35:14,786 --> 00:35:17,762 the caregivers, the teachers, institutions 696 00:35:17,762 --> 00:35:21,262 that work with kids. Anyone who is 697 00:35:21,262 --> 00:35:25,042 involved in matters child safety needed 698 00:35:25,042 --> 00:35:29,030 such a resource. So I'm just super 699 00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:33,014 grateful for all the survivors that have 700 00:35:33,014 --> 00:35:35,266 come up and told us, you know what? I am a 701 00:35:35,266 --> 00:35:37,766 survivor of child sexual abuse. I am so 702 00:35:37,766 --> 00:35:40,518 grateful for all the children who have 703 00:35:40,518 --> 00:35:43,046 shared their stories, who have parents 704 00:35:43,046 --> 00:35:47,146 sending us clips of children saying, it's 705 00:35:47,146 --> 00:35:49,910 not okay, Mommy, to keep a secret. Like 706 00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:53,246 children literally articulating some of 707 00:35:53,246 --> 00:35:55,950 the key concepts that we featured in the 708 00:35:55,950 --> 00:36:03,098 book. For me to just affirm the why, 709 00:36:03,098 --> 00:36:05,826 there's been a lot, a lot of feedback of 710 00:36:05,826 --> 00:36:08,142 the impact. And I think this is why many 711 00:36:08,142 --> 00:36:11,394 opportunities are coming up to just scale 712 00:36:11,394 --> 00:36:13,986 and take this information to as many 713 00:36:13,986 --> 00:36:19,558 people as possible. Yeah, it's incredible. 714 00:36:19,558 --> 00:36:21,842 I mean, when you just shared the part 715 00:36:21,842 --> 00:36:25,046 earlier about parents reading it with 716 00:36:25,046 --> 00:36:27,826 their children and realizing they're 717 00:36:27,826 --> 00:36:29,878 telling for the first time what happened 718 00:36:29,878 --> 00:36:31,498 to them and it just gave me chills. I got 719 00:36:31,498 --> 00:36:33,818 a little teary eyed. I mean, it's so 720 00:36:33,818 --> 00:36:35,674 beautiful because that is the impact you 721 00:36:35,674 --> 00:36:39,146 want to see. To give freedom to those who 722 00:36:39,146 --> 00:36:41,162 have been trapped for so long with their 723 00:36:41,162 --> 00:36:42,874 story and having been silenced for all 724 00:36:42,874 --> 00:36:45,854 those years from people who really did not 725 00:36:45,854 --> 00:36:47,726 even ask about what happened or wouldn't 726 00:36:47,726 --> 00:36:49,278 have even listened or believed them, maybe 727 00:36:49,278 --> 00:36:51,934 if they had told. And I do hear over and 728 00:36:51,934 --> 00:36:56,666 over again of moms who were sexually 729 00:36:56,666 --> 00:36:58,258 abused as a child. And then when they have 730 00:36:58,258 --> 00:37:00,530 a daughter that gets to that age, there is 731 00:37:00,530 --> 00:37:02,990 something that happens. Like you 732 00:37:02,990 --> 00:37:04,594 described, whether they were 15 when it 733 00:37:04,594 --> 00:37:05,922 happened, and their daughter gets to be 734 00:37:05,922 --> 00:37:08,854 15. And there's something that kind of 735 00:37:08,854 --> 00:37:12,002 gives them an opportunity to either start 736 00:37:12,002 --> 00:37:14,226 healing or take it to a new level of 737 00:37:14,226 --> 00:37:17,062 healing or even advocacy. I hear people 738 00:37:17,062 --> 00:37:19,258 talking about that at that stage to say, 739 00:37:19,258 --> 00:37:22,106 finally, like, wow, that was wrong. I was 740 00:37:22,106 --> 00:37:24,538 a child. And it was like whether that was 741 00:37:24,538 --> 00:37:28,698 a youth leader or a pastor, especially, 742 00:37:28,698 --> 00:37:32,110 really kind of a new level of advocacy 743 00:37:32,110 --> 00:37:33,918 within those faith communities to protect 744 00:37:33,918 --> 00:37:35,514 children, especially in the faith 745 00:37:35,514 --> 00:37:37,774 communities. Because I think over and over 746 00:37:37,774 --> 00:37:41,738 again what we see with either children or 747 00:37:41,738 --> 00:37:45,138 adults that are abused, it's often by 748 00:37:45,138 --> 00:37:47,758 people who are considered what we call do 749 00:37:47,758 --> 00:37:54,462 gooders. So pastors, policemen, teachers, 750 00:37:54,462 --> 00:37:58,978 resource people in the schools, doctors, 751 00:37:58,978 --> 00:38:01,126 so these people that no one would believe 752 00:38:01,126 --> 00:38:02,534 had done anything wrong with because they 753 00:38:02,534 --> 00:38:05,270 do so much good in the world. It is a 754 00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:07,846 place for them to hide and therefore it's 755 00:38:07,846 --> 00:38:10,134 so much harder to be believed. And so the 756 00:38:10,134 --> 00:38:13,066 healing can be so complicated for people. 757 00:38:13,066 --> 00:38:17,270 And so as you're doing this work to both 758 00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:20,060 prevent and respond to sexual violence 759 00:38:20,060 --> 00:38:23,886 within different parts of communities, 760 00:38:23,886 --> 00:38:26,174 what are some of the best practices you 761 00:38:26,174 --> 00:38:28,590 have seen? What are some of the tools that 762 00:38:28,590 --> 00:38:31,600 you're helping people understand and learn 763 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:40,720 from? So one of the key things that we 764 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:43,786 usually recommend, especially when a 765 00:38:43,786 --> 00:38:46,754 survivor comes to us and they tell us a 766 00:38:46,754 --> 00:38:51,606 survivor, I think the biggest one is being 767 00:38:51,606 --> 00:38:57,560 in a community with other survivors, 768 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,546 because healing happening in isolation is 769 00:39:01,546 --> 00:39:05,862 a lot, it can be overwhelming. You will 770 00:39:05,862 --> 00:39:08,854 constantly feel like you're not moving, 771 00:39:08,854 --> 00:39:12,942 nothing's happening. And so one of the 772 00:39:12,942 --> 00:39:15,520 most important things we try to do is help 773 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,750 this survivor, this person who has come to 774 00:39:18,750 --> 00:39:22,526 us to be part of a community. So here in 775 00:39:22,526 --> 00:39:25,726 the States, we do have a support group for 776 00:39:25,726 --> 00:39:28,546 survivors of sexual violence. And in Kenya 777 00:39:28,546 --> 00:39:31,090 as well, we are trying to create more of 778 00:39:31,090 --> 00:39:33,922 these communities of survivors where 779 00:39:33,922 --> 00:39:36,614 people just meet and share their stories 780 00:39:36,614 --> 00:39:41,506 in a dignified way and try to reclaim some 781 00:39:41,506 --> 00:39:45,650 parts of them that were lost with the 782 00:39:45,650 --> 00:39:49,430 trauma. So that has been very key. And of 783 00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:51,578 course, the other part is just helping 784 00:39:51,578 --> 00:39:54,874 them access support services because many 785 00:39:54,874 --> 00:39:57,626 people don't know, many people do not know 786 00:39:57,626 --> 00:40:01,534 that when this happens to you, you can go 787 00:40:01,534 --> 00:40:05,280 to this particular hospital to get free 788 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,882 services. There's this network of 789 00:40:07,882 --> 00:40:12,918 counselors that offers free pro bono 790 00:40:12,918 --> 00:40:15,022 counseling services. There are these 791 00:40:15,022 --> 00:40:19,874 lawyers that offer services for you. So I 792 00:40:19,874 --> 00:40:22,366 think what we are grateful for is that 793 00:40:22,366 --> 00:40:27,190 we've been able to become that resource 794 00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:30,134 that helps survivors be connected to 795 00:40:30,134 --> 00:40:33,350 people who are doing the work in the 796 00:40:33,350 --> 00:40:36,966 ground. That has meant growing our network 797 00:40:36,966 --> 00:40:39,934 of referral services, we have a whole 798 00:40:39,934 --> 00:40:42,854 database of these are the people that are 799 00:40:42,854 --> 00:40:45,546 offering counseling services. These are 800 00:40:45,546 --> 00:40:48,074 the hospitals that survivors can go to. 801 00:40:48,074 --> 00:40:50,910 These are the hotlines that survivors can 802 00:40:50,910 --> 00:40:54,030 call. So we've taken time to intentionally 803 00:40:54,030 --> 00:40:57,930 put this data together and to make it 804 00:40:57,930 --> 00:41:01,678 accessible to survivors any communities 805 00:41:01,678 --> 00:41:04,634 that we go to. So that's the other thing, 806 00:41:04,634 --> 00:41:06,898 making sure that they know that support 807 00:41:06,898 --> 00:41:08,914 services are available for them, that they 808 00:41:08,914 --> 00:41:11,362 can access them, and then the next thing, 809 00:41:11,362 --> 00:41:15,266 like helping them be a part of a community 810 00:41:15,266 --> 00:41:19,410 so that their healing can happen together. 811 00:41:19,410 --> 00:41:21,586 Hear the stories and you're encouraged, 812 00:41:21,586 --> 00:41:24,886 you're inspired to continue working in 813 00:41:24,886 --> 00:41:27,686 that journey because healing is not easy. 814 00:41:27,686 --> 00:41:30,586 There are days when you're doing so well, 815 00:41:30,586 --> 00:41:33,386 and then there are days where you go back 816 00:41:33,386 --> 00:41:36,054 to those dark places and you feel like you 817 00:41:36,054 --> 00:41:39,430 haven't made any strides. So we really 818 00:41:39,430 --> 00:41:43,934 encourage community and storytelling as a 819 00:41:43,934 --> 00:41:47,134 big part of helping you process the trauma 820 00:41:47,134 --> 00:41:53,018 that happened before. Yeah, storytelling 821 00:41:53,018 --> 00:41:56,178 is so powerful. Just any survivor needs 822 00:41:56,178 --> 00:41:58,274 someone to hear their story and believe 823 00:41:58,274 --> 00:42:01,220 them. And empathize. And every time that 824 00:42:01,220 --> 00:42:03,634 happens, it's a little bit more healing. 825 00:42:03,634 --> 00:42:06,434 And community that's Safe really does play 826 00:42:06,434 --> 00:42:09,174 that role. It's one of the many aspects 827 00:42:09,174 --> 00:42:11,398 that I've seen personally in my own life 828 00:42:11,398 --> 00:42:13,734 and then in the lives of others who are 829 00:42:13,734 --> 00:42:15,686 either trauma survivors or abuse survivors 830 00:42:15,686 --> 00:42:20,646 or both. It is hugely helpful. Yeah. Thank 831 00:42:20,646 --> 00:42:22,854 you so much for all that. You've shared so 832 00:42:22,854 --> 00:42:25,226 vulnerably today. I know it's really going 833 00:42:25,226 --> 00:42:27,260 to resonate with so many people that 834 00:42:27,260 --> 00:42:29,914 listen, both in Africa, we have a lot of 835 00:42:29,914 --> 00:42:32,026 people who listen in Africa, kenya, 836 00:42:32,026 --> 00:42:34,958 Nigeria, a bunch of different places and 837 00:42:34,958 --> 00:42:36,862 also all around the world. Because these 838 00:42:36,862 --> 00:42:39,738 things are not exclusive to one country, 839 00:42:39,738 --> 00:42:41,230 they're not exclusive to one faith 840 00:42:41,230 --> 00:42:43,214 community, they're not exclusive to one 841 00:42:43,214 --> 00:42:45,646 type of school system or government. This 842 00:42:45,646 --> 00:42:49,106 is a global issue. And I'm so grateful 843 00:42:49,106 --> 00:42:50,546 that you have written this book and I do 844 00:42:50,546 --> 00:42:52,702 hope it gets into the hands of people 845 00:42:52,702 --> 00:42:55,442 everywhere that can help children to have 846 00:42:55,442 --> 00:42:57,218 these conversations with their caregivers 847 00:42:57,218 --> 00:42:59,206 and their parents. Because I know when I 848 00:42:59,206 --> 00:43:01,400 was raising my children when they were 849 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,534 little, we were given some tools and I do 850 00:43:04,534 --> 00:43:06,454 feel so privileged that we were. But 851 00:43:06,454 --> 00:43:07,926 having a book like yours to walk through 852 00:43:07,926 --> 00:43:08,966 with our children would have been that 853 00:43:08,966 --> 00:43:11,066 much better. We had little conversations 854 00:43:11,066 --> 00:43:12,346 like don't let somebody touch you where 855 00:43:12,346 --> 00:43:14,154 your bathing suit would cover. And don't 856 00:43:14,154 --> 00:43:16,586 keep secrets. We did have access to some 857 00:43:16,586 --> 00:43:20,234 of those resources. And you do worry 858 00:43:20,234 --> 00:43:21,722 because, you know, even though you've 859 00:43:21,722 --> 00:43:24,294 given your child tools, that there are 860 00:43:24,294 --> 00:43:27,386 people out there that can so easily take 861 00:43:27,386 --> 00:43:29,086 advantage of them. So this book is so 862 00:43:29,086 --> 00:43:30,974 beautiful and it's going to prevent so 863 00:43:30,974 --> 00:43:32,654 much and I'm so grateful that you wrote 864 00:43:32,654 --> 00:43:35,680 it. So thank you for your time today. Is 865 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,506 there any last thing you would. Like to 866 00:43:37,506 --> 00:43:39,426 say to our audience and. Also let people 867 00:43:39,426 --> 00:43:41,106 know where they can find you and more of 868 00:43:41,106 --> 00:43:45,286 your writing and speaking? Well, I think 869 00:43:45,286 --> 00:43:50,594 my call to action would be, do not let 870 00:43:50,594 --> 00:43:54,934 fear paralyze you. Because I think looking 871 00:43:54,934 --> 00:43:57,426 back at that moment when I had my 872 00:43:57,426 --> 00:44:00,602 daughter, I had so much fear. I had so 873 00:44:00,602 --> 00:44:04,346 much fear of like, oh, my goodness. But I 874 00:44:04,346 --> 00:44:07,658 had the choice of just letting that fear 875 00:44:07,658 --> 00:44:11,162 control me and stagnate me. And I had this 876 00:44:11,162 --> 00:44:14,206 other choice of doing something about it. 877 00:44:14,206 --> 00:44:17,680 And I know sometimes it may feel like a 878 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,850 lot because even for me, at that point, I 879 00:44:19,850 --> 00:44:22,494 didn't even know I could write a book. 880 00:44:22,494 --> 00:44:26,450 Even when I was telling our founder this 881 00:44:26,450 --> 00:44:29,634 idea, I thought someone else would do it. 882 00:44:29,634 --> 00:44:31,666 But then she was like, you are the one 883 00:44:31,666 --> 00:44:35,006 with the vision. You will figure it out. 884 00:44:35,006 --> 00:44:38,722 Figure it out. Start something. And so my 885 00:44:38,722 --> 00:44:41,990 encouragement for anyone who's listening, 886 00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:45,862 whatever it is that you're grappling with, 887 00:44:45,862 --> 00:44:48,922 just start somewhere. Start where you are 888 00:44:48,922 --> 00:44:52,986 at and do not let fear stop you. Because I 889 00:44:52,986 --> 00:44:56,246 feel like some of the most awesome 890 00:44:56,246 --> 00:44:58,374 innovations in this world. Some of the 891 00:44:58,374 --> 00:45:04,094 biggest change makers, they chose to act. 892 00:45:04,094 --> 00:45:10,266 For me, I feel like even in this quest of 893 00:45:10,266 --> 00:45:14,346 ending sexual violence, we cannot be 894 00:45:14,346 --> 00:45:16,786 passive. We cannot just hear, listen to 895 00:45:16,786 --> 00:45:19,122 all of the stories that are happening and 896 00:45:19,122 --> 00:45:20,766 watch the news and be like, oh my God, 897 00:45:20,766 --> 00:45:25,374 that's terrible. No. We have to actively 898 00:45:25,374 --> 00:45:27,270 participate in making sure that it's not 899 00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:30,018 happening in our houses, in our 900 00:45:30,018 --> 00:45:32,440 neighborhoods, in our community as a 901 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,366 whole. You have to make the choice to call 902 00:45:35,366 --> 00:45:38,838 it out when you see it, to hold people 903 00:45:38,838 --> 00:45:42,874 accountable, to speak up whenever you hear 904 00:45:42,874 --> 00:45:46,650 a belief that perpetrates the culture of 905 00:45:46,650 --> 00:45:49,914 violence, all of that. You have to make 906 00:45:49,914 --> 00:45:52,062 the choice to speak up. You have to lean 907 00:45:52,062 --> 00:45:55,166 into courage, just like Pendo, and use 908 00:45:55,166 --> 00:45:58,814 your voice to call out any forms of abuse 909 00:45:58,814 --> 00:46:02,270 that you see. So that is my biggest 910 00:46:02,270 --> 00:46:05,474 encouragement. Pendostawa is now available 911 00:46:05,474 --> 00:46:08,786 in Kenya and the United States. In Kenya, 912 00:46:08,786 --> 00:46:13,346 you can find it in any textbook center. 913 00:46:13,346 --> 00:46:20,920 You can also order on our website, kenya 914 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,430 Pendospower.com. And then here in the 915 00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:27,010 United States. It will be available on 916 00:46:27,010 --> 00:46:30,714 Amazon in a month. But currently orders 917 00:46:30,714 --> 00:46:37,738 are being made on Buy Kindofower.com, buy 918 00:46:37,738 --> 00:46:40,054 Pendofower.com. You can also follow us on 919 00:46:40,054 --> 00:46:43,966 our socials to be updated on everything 920 00:46:43,966 --> 00:46:47,738 that we're doing and all our socials are 921 00:46:47,738 --> 00:46:50,590 Freely in Hope. Freely in hope on 922 00:46:50,590 --> 00:46:54,958 Instagram. Freely in hope on Facebook. 923 00:46:54,958 --> 00:46:57,842 Freely in hope on Twitter. So you can 924 00:46:57,842 --> 00:47:00,562 follow us and you can also check out our 925 00:47:00,562 --> 00:47:05,410 website, which is WW freelyinhope.org to 926 00:47:05,410 --> 00:47:08,774 just access all of these awesome resources 927 00:47:08,774 --> 00:47:11,442 that are featured there. Our website is a 928 00:47:11,442 --> 00:47:14,040 resource gallo. As you can tell. We love 929 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,850 to provide resources that educate 930 00:47:16,850 --> 00:47:18,626 communities about all of these things. 931 00:47:18,626 --> 00:47:21,366 Trauma informed parenting, trauma informed 932 00:47:21,366 --> 00:47:24,586 caregiving, how do you respond, all of 933 00:47:24,586 --> 00:47:26,954 that. Just check out our website and you 934 00:47:26,954 --> 00:47:29,386 get access to a lot of very good 935 00:47:29,386 --> 00:47:35,374 information that will help you take. Yeah, 936 00:47:35,374 --> 00:47:37,566 thank you. Lydia, it's been so wonderful 937 00:47:37,566 --> 00:47:39,806 to hear your story today. Thank you so 938 00:47:39,806 --> 00:47:41,694 much for vulnerably, sharing it, and for 939 00:47:41,694 --> 00:47:45,134 your courage to not only heal yourself, 940 00:47:45,134 --> 00:47:47,266 but also to warn and protect others and 941 00:47:47,266 --> 00:47:49,090 give people resources to protect 942 00:47:49,090 --> 00:47:51,970 themselves and their children from any 943 00:47:51,970 --> 00:47:53,810 future abuse. So thank you for being on 944 00:47:53,810 --> 00:47:55,966 today. Thank you for having me. This has 945 00:47:55,966 --> 00:48:00,200 been amazing, very reflective, going back 946 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,662 and looking at the journey. It has been 947 00:48:02,662 --> 00:48:04,600 awesome. So thank you so much for having 948 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,886 me. Looking forward to more interactions 949 00:48:06,886 --> 00:48:10,882 in the future. That conversation was so 950 00:48:10,882 --> 00:48:14,346 vulnerable and so special. Bye. And I hope 951 00:48:14,346 --> 00:48:16,538 that you're listening and recognizing what 952 00:48:16,538 --> 00:48:18,954 a treasure it is to have someone share 953 00:48:18,954 --> 00:48:23,294 their story so vulnerably so openly, as 954 00:48:23,294 --> 00:48:27,454 she mentioned. Many in fact, it seems as 955 00:48:27,454 --> 00:48:29,306 though the majority of people who've 956 00:48:29,306 --> 00:48:33,250 walked through abuse and trauma never, 957 00:48:33,250 --> 00:48:36,914 ever share. Especially in cases like what 958 00:48:36,914 --> 00:48:40,814 she mentioned, where cultures are 959 00:48:40,814 --> 00:48:43,026 silencing, especially little girls and 960 00:48:43,026 --> 00:48:45,826 women who've experienced sexual abuse and 961 00:48:45,826 --> 00:48:48,870 blaming them for what they wore, blaming 962 00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:52,306 them for doing something that would 963 00:48:52,306 --> 00:48:54,646 somehow entice their own abuse to happen 964 00:48:54,646 --> 00:48:58,166 to them, even as children, even as a five 965 00:48:58,166 --> 00:49:01,818 year old girl, those things happen. And so 966 00:49:01,818 --> 00:49:04,300 I don't know if you ever saw there was 967 00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:07,034 this exhibit that was going around a few 968 00:49:07,034 --> 00:49:09,194 years ago where it just showed the outfits 969 00:49:09,194 --> 00:49:11,118 little girls and women had been wearing at 970 00:49:11,118 --> 00:49:14,446 the time of their own sexual assault. And 971 00:49:14,446 --> 00:49:16,318 it was horrifying to look at because none 972 00:49:16,318 --> 00:49:18,954 of them were what any of us would consider 973 00:49:18,954 --> 00:49:24,466 overly sexualized. But also, one of them 974 00:49:24,466 --> 00:49:26,114 was so horrifying because it was like a 975 00:49:26,114 --> 00:49:29,614 little baby girl swimsuit that was just 976 00:49:29,614 --> 00:49:33,410 awful to see. Some of them were like 977 00:49:33,410 --> 00:49:37,160 sweatshirts. The point being, even if it 978 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,922 was a very sexy outfit that a woman was 979 00:49:39,922 --> 00:49:43,510 wearing, it does not invite her own sexual 980 00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:47,262 assault. And so we have a way of victim 981 00:49:47,262 --> 00:49:50,294 blaming abuse of every kind. Not just 982 00:49:50,294 --> 00:49:53,594 sexual abuse, but victim blaming people 983 00:49:53,594 --> 00:49:55,766 for emotional abuse, psychological abuse, 984 00:49:55,766 --> 00:49:57,754 spiritual abuse, financial abuse. Often 985 00:49:57,754 --> 00:50:00,358 things will be said, well, why did you 986 00:50:00,358 --> 00:50:02,586 blank? As if something they had done 987 00:50:02,586 --> 00:50:05,566 evoked that response from an abuser, 988 00:50:05,566 --> 00:50:08,666 especially when it's a woman victim and a 989 00:50:08,666 --> 00:50:11,886 male abuser. And also, even if it's not, 990 00:50:11,886 --> 00:50:14,602 when there's a power dynamic differential, 991 00:50:14,602 --> 00:50:16,526 often it's even more likely that the 992 00:50:16,526 --> 00:50:19,166 victim will be blamed. And so all of this 993 00:50:19,166 --> 00:50:22,580 helps us to be aware. And awareness is 994 00:50:22,580 --> 00:50:25,414 key. The more we spread the truth, the 995 00:50:25,414 --> 00:50:27,862 more we value transparency, the more we 996 00:50:27,862 --> 00:50:31,314 create psychological safety for victim 997 00:50:31,314 --> 00:50:34,054 survivors of abuse to share their story, 998 00:50:34,054 --> 00:50:36,566 to believe them, to empathize with them, 999 00:50:36,566 --> 00:50:38,906 and to advocate on their behalf. Because 1000 00:50:38,906 --> 00:50:42,522 this is not a role victims should be the 1001 00:50:42,522 --> 00:50:45,590 only ones playing. And that's one of 1002 00:50:45,590 --> 00:50:49,194 advocacy. Many advocates that I know are 1003 00:50:49,194 --> 00:50:52,070 themselves victim survivors, but not 1004 00:50:52,070 --> 00:50:53,994 exclusively are all advocates victim 1005 00:50:53,994 --> 00:50:57,742 survivors themselves. But it does seem so. 1006 00:50:57,742 --> 00:50:59,438 Often the brunt of this work is carried on 1007 00:50:59,438 --> 00:51:01,290 the backs of those who are the most 1008 00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:04,622 traumatized by what has happened then it's 1009 00:51:04,622 --> 00:51:07,154 being the victim survivors of abuse. So we 1010 00:51:07,154 --> 00:51:09,714 need more allies. We need more people who 1011 00:51:09,714 --> 00:51:11,762 help carry this load who are not actually 1012 00:51:11,762 --> 00:51:13,262 still walking through the trauma of 1013 00:51:13,262 --> 00:51:17,086 experiencing it. And so the bravery of a 1014 00:51:17,086 --> 00:51:19,542 woman like her coming on the show to not 1015 00:51:19,542 --> 00:51:21,734 only share her own experience but to speak 1016 00:51:21,734 --> 00:51:24,966 out and be an advocate, help people find 1017 00:51:24,966 --> 00:51:27,506 best practices to how to heal and then 1018 00:51:27,506 --> 00:51:30,182 writing a book to help prevent is just so 1019 00:51:30,182 --> 00:51:33,066 powerful and so amazing, so honored to 1020 00:51:33,066 --> 00:51:34,886 have her on the show today. And I'm really 1021 00:51:34,886 --> 00:51:36,314 wondering how you're resonating with what 1022 00:51:36,314 --> 00:51:40,154 she said. It certainly impacted me. Like I 1023 00:51:40,154 --> 00:51:42,454 said, I got chills and I got a little 1024 00:51:42,454 --> 00:51:44,026 teary eyed at one point when she was 1025 00:51:44,026 --> 00:51:46,398 sharing about a parent reading that book 1026 00:51:46,398 --> 00:51:48,286 and then understanding their own abuse 1027 00:51:48,286 --> 00:51:49,790 that they had not really ever spoken 1028 00:51:49,790 --> 00:51:51,994 about. And people listening to this 1029 00:51:51,994 --> 00:51:53,546 podcast, many of you may have carried 1030 00:51:53,546 --> 00:51:56,466 abuse for years and never told anyone. And 1031 00:51:56,466 --> 00:51:59,314 if that's you, I really do hope that you 1032 00:51:59,314 --> 00:52:02,226 find someone safe to speak to and reach 1033 00:52:02,226 --> 00:52:05,794 out to them, whether it's a therapist that 1034 00:52:05,794 --> 00:52:07,970 will keep that confidential and once 1035 00:52:07,970 --> 00:52:10,294 again, BetterHelp.com Difference can be a 1036 00:52:10,294 --> 00:52:12,566 place where you can get some help 10% off 1037 00:52:12,566 --> 00:52:14,614 your first month. But even if it's a 1038 00:52:14,614 --> 00:52:18,120 friend, even if it's somebody you meet 1039 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,546 through social media that's experienced 1040 00:52:20,546 --> 00:52:22,106 abuse themselves and that you could share 1041 00:52:22,106 --> 00:52:25,738 that with yeah. It's so powerful to be 1042 00:52:25,738 --> 00:52:27,322 able to. Speak it out loud. And many 1043 00:52:27,322 --> 00:52:29,642 people find healing by being able to 1044 00:52:29,642 --> 00:52:32,106 finally share it with people who will 1045 00:52:32,106 --> 00:52:35,430 listen, believe you and empathize with 1046 00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:37,086 what you went through. It's so much a part 1047 00:52:37,086 --> 00:52:39,086 of healing. So I love the work that she's 1048 00:52:39,086 --> 00:52:40,666 doing in community and the narrative, 1049 00:52:40,666 --> 00:52:42,766 method and storytelling about all of this. 1050 00:52:42,766 --> 00:52:44,622 It really helps to have a support group of 1051 00:52:44,622 --> 00:52:46,498 people. If you can find that, not 1052 00:52:46,498 --> 00:52:50,914 everybody can. But for those of you who 1053 00:52:50,914 --> 00:52:53,154 have never told anyone, yeah, my heart 1054 00:52:53,154 --> 00:52:55,090 goes out to you today and I do hope you 1055 00:52:55,090 --> 00:52:57,106 find a space where you can feel free just 1056 00:52:57,106 --> 00:52:59,050 to open up a little bit and not have to 1057 00:52:59,050 --> 00:53:02,678 carry that burden by yourself. Also, we go 1058 00:53:02,678 --> 00:53:04,550 a little bit deeper with her in the 1059 00:53:04,550 --> 00:53:06,018 Difference Maker community. So if you 1060 00:53:06,018 --> 00:53:07,730 haven't joined us there, you can go to 1061 00:53:07,730 --> 00:53:12,346 Patreon Comaworldofdifference. For only $5 1062 00:53:12,346 --> 00:53:15,786 a month, you could join our group and 1063 00:53:15,786 --> 00:53:18,266 there are extra content that's exclusive 1064 00:53:18,266 --> 00:53:21,034 for this group. She stops in there and I 1065 00:53:21,034 --> 00:53:22,950 ask her a little more about some of the 1066 00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:25,642 practices that she has found helpful for 1067 00:53:25,642 --> 00:53:28,602 herself and her own healing. And a sneak 1068 00:53:28,602 --> 00:53:30,302 peek, we get a little bit into some of the 1069 00:53:30,302 --> 00:53:32,574 right brain stuff that's been helpful for 1070 00:53:32,574 --> 00:53:35,054 her and that's some of my new findings 1071 00:53:35,054 --> 00:53:36,990 personally is how much right brain 1072 00:53:36,990 --> 00:53:40,274 activities can be so key in our healing, 1073 00:53:40,274 --> 00:53:43,374 our bodies and our brains and nervous 1074 00:53:43,374 --> 00:53:45,698 systems that still kind of carry and keep 1075 00:53:45,698 --> 00:53:47,314 the score. And so she talks through a lot 1076 00:53:47,314 --> 00:53:51,174 of things that she's been doing and it's a 1077 00:53:51,174 --> 00:53:52,886 fun conversation at the same time. So I 1078 00:53:52,886 --> 00:53:55,782 hope you join us there. Once again, 1079 00:53:55,782 --> 00:53:57,238 Patreon.com Slash, a World of Difference 1080 00:53:57,238 --> 00:53:58,934 where you can come and join us, check us 1081 00:53:58,934 --> 00:54:00,278 out, check us out for a month and see what 1082 00:54:00,278 --> 00:54:02,106 you think. There's a lot of extra content 1083 00:54:02,106 --> 00:54:04,026 in there with all of our different guests 1084 00:54:04,026 --> 00:54:06,746 and we do a little fun things sometimes 1085 00:54:06,746 --> 00:54:08,586 where I put in some Lori's travel tips 1086 00:54:08,586 --> 00:54:11,274 from the different places I've been and 1087 00:54:11,274 --> 00:54:13,162 love for you to chime in on those too. So, 1088 00:54:13,162 --> 00:54:15,086 yeah, it's a little bit of deep, a little 1089 00:54:15,086 --> 00:54:17,022 bit of fun in our Difference Maker 1090 00:54:17,022 --> 00:54:19,198 community so I'd love to have you join us. 1091 00:54:19,198 --> 00:54:20,846 Anyway, I know a lot of you are carrying 1092 00:54:20,846 --> 00:54:23,614 some pretty heavy loads. If this has been 1093 00:54:23,614 --> 00:54:25,646 a podcast that's been helpful for you and 1094 00:54:25,646 --> 00:54:27,394 you feel like you know someone that really 1095 00:54:27,394 --> 00:54:29,106 could benefit from this conversation 1096 00:54:29,106 --> 00:54:31,794 today, please share it with them. That's 1097 00:54:31,794 --> 00:54:34,594 one way you can make a difference. Also 1098 00:54:34,594 --> 00:54:35,906 another way you can make a difference is 1099 00:54:35,906 --> 00:54:37,634 it really does, for whatever reason help 1100 00:54:37,634 --> 00:54:40,914 people find us when you give us a review. 1101 00:54:40,914 --> 00:54:42,086 So I don't know what happens with all 1102 00:54:42,086 --> 00:54:43,826 those algorithms, but when you go to 1103 00:54:43,826 --> 00:54:45,206 wherever you're listening your podcast and 1104 00:54:45,206 --> 00:54:46,694 just take a couple of seconds, it doesn't 1105 00:54:46,694 --> 00:54:48,262 take long, but it can make a huge 1106 00:54:48,262 --> 00:54:49,798 difference to just give us a review and 1107 00:54:49,798 --> 00:54:51,094 let us know what you think. And it helps 1108 00:54:51,094 --> 00:54:52,802 other people find us to have these 1109 00:54:52,802 --> 00:54:55,126 conversations with us. So yeah would love 1110 00:54:55,126 --> 00:54:58,246 that. Once again, it's a wild month for a 1111 00:54:58,246 --> 00:55:01,646 lot of people. Lots going on. So take care 1112 00:55:01,646 --> 00:55:03,470 of yourself and wherever you are in the
goodpods top 100 places & travel indie podcasts Goodpods Top 100 Places & Travel Indie Podcasts Listen now to A World of Difference podcast
goodpods top 100 places & travel indie podcasts Goodpods Top 100 Places & Travel Indie Podcasts Listen now to A World of Difference podcast