Cordell Carter, II on the Aspen Institute and Building a Dynamic Professional Learning Community for Equity and Belonging

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,458 Welcome to the A World of Difference 2 00:00:04,458 --> 00:00:06,766 podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown and this is 3 00:00:06,766 --> 00:00:08,606 a podcast for those who are different and 4 00:00:08,606 --> 00:00:12,714 want to make a difference. We have a very 5 00:00:12,714 --> 00:00:14,878 exciting guest on the show today who's 6 00:00:14,878 --> 00:00:17,114 making such a difference around the world. 7 00:00:17,114 --> 00:00:20,078 Cordell Carter is on the show. Cordell is 8 00:00:20,078 --> 00:00:22,186 currently the executive director of the 9 00:00:22,186 --> 00:00:25,318 Aspen Institute Socrates Program, which is 10 00:00:25,318 --> 00:00:28,086 a global education forum. And he's also 11 00:00:28,086 --> 00:00:30,386 the founding director of the Aspen 12 00:00:30,386 --> 00:00:33,698 Institute's Project on Belonging. He also 13 00:00:33,698 --> 00:00:37,234 founded the Festival of the Diaspora in 14 00:00:37,234 --> 00:00:41,418 Medellin, Colombia. And he basically has 15 00:00:41,418 --> 00:00:43,686 been in all kinds of different leadership 16 00:00:43,686 --> 00:00:46,294 roles, as you could imagine, with the 17 00:00:46,294 --> 00:00:48,262 Techtown Foundation, Bill and Melinda 18 00:00:48,262 --> 00:00:51,310 Gates Foundation, Seattle Public Schools 19 00:00:51,310 --> 00:00:53,710 Business Roundtable, National alliance to 20 00:00:53,710 --> 00:00:56,190 Public charter Schools, and the IBM 21 00:00:56,190 --> 00:00:58,682 Corporation for the Aspen Institute. He 22 00:00:58,682 --> 00:01:00,638 curates more than three dozen off the 23 00:01:00,638 --> 00:01:02,954 record leadership seminars annually in 24 00:01:02,954 --> 00:01:05,026 capital cities around the world, reaching 25 00:01:05,026 --> 00:01:08,114 more than 1000 leaders each year. He's 26 00:01:08,114 --> 00:01:10,014 also been leading the Aspen Institute's 27 00:01:10,014 --> 00:01:12,082 efforts to shift the national conversation 28 00:01:12,082 --> 00:01:15,482 on racial equity and inclusion from 29 00:01:15,482 --> 00:01:17,686 compliance to the word belonging. And he 30 00:01:17,686 --> 00:01:21,766 has a lot of work around belonging. And he 31 00:01:21,766 --> 00:01:24,182 does this via an annual Latin American 32 00:01:24,182 --> 00:01:27,282 based summit called the festival the 33 00:01:27,282 --> 00:01:29,366 Diaspora. So he's on today to talk about 34 00:01:29,366 --> 00:01:31,894 all his work around belonging, what he's 35 00:01:31,894 --> 00:01:33,898 been doing and all his travels. He's going 36 00:01:33,898 --> 00:01:37,274 to be calling in from where he's at 37 00:01:37,274 --> 00:01:40,234 currently in Kenya and Nairobi. But his 38 00:01:40,234 --> 00:01:42,154 work does take him all around the world 39 00:01:42,154 --> 00:01:44,818 and as a thought leader and a difference 40 00:01:44,818 --> 00:01:46,686 maker, bringing him on the show today just 41 00:01:46,686 --> 00:01:48,542 to hear about his work and how we can 42 00:01:48,542 --> 00:01:50,526 center around some of what he's doing to 43 00:01:50,526 --> 00:01:53,026 make a difference together. So welcome to 44 00:01:53,026 --> 00:02:03,198 the show today. Cordell Carter. Hello, 45 00:02:03,198 --> 00:02:05,494 Cordell, thank you so much for joining us 46 00:02:05,494 --> 00:02:09,746 today, all the way from Nairobi, Kenya. 47 00:02:09,746 --> 00:02:11,782 It's a pleasure. How are you, Laurie? 48 00:02:11,782 --> 00:02:15,430 Doing very well. Excited to get into this 49 00:02:15,430 --> 00:02:17,686 conversation, know, getting to know you a 50 00:02:17,686 --> 00:02:20,214 little bit better. You clearly are such a 51 00:02:20,214 --> 00:02:21,686 high achiever. We have a lot of high 52 00:02:21,686 --> 00:02:23,926 achievers that come on the podcast, but 53 00:02:23,926 --> 00:02:25,526 you're making a difference in all kinds of 54 00:02:25,526 --> 00:02:28,986 areas. So super excited to unpack that. I 55 00:02:28,986 --> 00:02:30,602 think my first question out the gate for 56 00:02:30,602 --> 00:02:34,686 you is, did you ever imagine yourself at 57 00:02:34,686 --> 00:02:37,086 the Aspen Institute with the Socrates 58 00:02:37,086 --> 00:02:38,846 program, any of this project on belonging, 59 00:02:38,846 --> 00:02:41,040 all the stuff you're doing when you were a 60 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,518 little Cordell, what was he wanting to be 61 00:02:43,518 --> 00:02:45,482 when he grew up? Did he ever imagine a 62 00:02:45,482 --> 00:02:50,770 scenario like. Know as a little guy, I 63 00:02:50,770 --> 00:02:53,122 thought being a lawyer or a pastor was 64 00:02:53,122 --> 00:02:56,900 like the highest calling that one could do 65 00:02:56,900 --> 00:02:59,906 and realized that pastoring definitely 66 00:02:59,906 --> 00:03:03,000 wasn't my bag just different temperament 67 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,966 than my forefathers. So they had something 68 00:03:06,966 --> 00:03:10,266 else that I don't have. But the best thing 69 00:03:10,266 --> 00:03:14,874 to me, this idea of serving humanity. And 70 00:03:14,874 --> 00:03:17,994 I feel very fortunate that I get to do 71 00:03:17,994 --> 00:03:21,360 that. And so, in a way, it's a secular 72 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,686 calling. Yeah, I would love to unpack all 73 00:03:26,686 --> 00:03:30,238 of that a little more, too. So tell us a 74 00:03:30,238 --> 00:03:32,366 little bit about your family. So you come 75 00:03:32,366 --> 00:03:34,610 from a faith background with pastors in 76 00:03:34,610 --> 00:03:39,694 your family? Oh, yeah. It hits every 77 00:03:39,694 --> 00:03:41,394 generation pretty hard, especially the men 78 00:03:41,394 --> 00:03:45,266 on my father's side of the family. And 79 00:03:45,266 --> 00:03:47,766 broken the mole in two respects. One, I 80 00:03:47,766 --> 00:03:51,922 did not formally serve in the military, 81 00:03:51,922 --> 00:03:55,526 whereas virtually all of them did. And 82 00:03:55,526 --> 00:03:58,694 then I also moved away from the ancestral 83 00:03:58,694 --> 00:04:02,038 home in Virginia because my dad didn't 84 00:04:02,038 --> 00:04:03,514 want us to say that we've only been in one 85 00:04:03,514 --> 00:04:05,446 place our whole life. And so we moved to 86 00:04:05,446 --> 00:04:08,106 Seattle when I was in middle school and 87 00:04:08,106 --> 00:04:09,866 just starting high school, just to 88 00:04:09,866 --> 00:04:13,342 experience a different part of the know, 89 00:04:13,342 --> 00:04:15,790 different cultures, different, just 90 00:04:15,790 --> 00:04:18,862 differences, and learn to embrace them all 91 00:04:18,862 --> 00:04:22,834 and get comfortable in new places. And so 92 00:04:22,834 --> 00:04:25,518 from childhood, that's one of the 93 00:04:25,518 --> 00:04:27,518 hallmarks, if you will, this notion that 94 00:04:27,518 --> 00:04:30,366 they're forcing us to be different and 95 00:04:30,366 --> 00:04:33,154 accept differences by physically moving 96 00:04:33,154 --> 00:04:36,374 you around. But also, I also got to see 97 00:04:36,374 --> 00:04:39,702 great examples of service, and it's often 98 00:04:39,702 --> 00:04:44,386 the quiet, non published acts, holding a 99 00:04:44,386 --> 00:04:46,934 door open, being respectful when someone 100 00:04:46,934 --> 00:04:50,362 is asking for money, treating them like a 101 00:04:50,362 --> 00:04:54,966 human being, rather than saying no, or I 102 00:04:54,966 --> 00:04:57,066 acknowledge that you exist, my answer is 103 00:04:57,066 --> 00:04:58,810 still no, but I acknowledge that you 104 00:04:58,810 --> 00:05:01,546 exist. Or here's where some services can 105 00:05:01,546 --> 00:05:04,826 be found. If you truly are hungry, there's 106 00:05:04,826 --> 00:05:06,718 places where you can get food. And so you 107 00:05:06,718 --> 00:05:08,238 have to know what those places are in 108 00:05:08,238 --> 00:05:13,620 order to be able to dish that advice. And 109 00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:18,562 so I've seen service everywhere in my 110 00:05:18,562 --> 00:05:21,186 life, and very little of it now, as I 111 00:05:21,186 --> 00:05:26,114 think about it, was in a religious, 112 00:05:26,114 --> 00:05:28,790 religious context. This is how you serve 113 00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:34,658 humanity. Beautiful. So beautiful. Yeah. I 114 00:05:34,658 --> 00:05:35,974 don't know if you're a person. That still 115 00:05:35,974 --> 00:05:39,500 has faith. I am a person of faith. But I 116 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:43,382 also find that sometimes in my own faith 117 00:05:43,382 --> 00:05:45,654 background, people want to separate the 118 00:05:45,654 --> 00:05:49,126 sacred and the secular to a degree that it 119 00:05:49,126 --> 00:05:52,186 doesn't resonate as much with me, because 120 00:05:52,186 --> 00:05:55,354 I did spend time in paid ministry. I was a 121 00:05:55,354 --> 00:05:57,726 pastor for a while. Even, and now I work 122 00:05:57,726 --> 00:05:59,486 in global leadership development and tech. 123 00:05:59,486 --> 00:06:03,390 And I find that just as you're saying, 124 00:06:03,390 --> 00:06:06,514 expressing care for humanity, it doesn't 125 00:06:06,514 --> 00:06:10,462 have to have any sort of label or job 126 00:06:10,462 --> 00:06:12,638 description. And sometimes outside the 127 00:06:12,638 --> 00:06:14,194 walls of our religious institutions are 128 00:06:14,194 --> 00:06:16,034 where some of the most beautiful things 129 00:06:16,034 --> 00:06:17,746 happen. What has been your experience with 130 00:06:17,746 --> 00:06:23,334 any of that. Watching that light come on 131 00:06:23,334 --> 00:06:25,494 in, people, like, when they start to see 132 00:06:25,494 --> 00:06:27,286 themselves the way you see them, just as 133 00:06:27,286 --> 00:06:29,914 full of potential, have been among the 134 00:06:29,914 --> 00:06:32,458 most rewarding. I get the opportunity to 135 00:06:32,458 --> 00:06:35,190 select leaders for programs at the ASP 136 00:06:35,190 --> 00:06:37,322 Institute, as a commissioner for the 137 00:06:37,322 --> 00:06:39,062 President Commission on the White House 138 00:06:39,062 --> 00:06:41,658 Fellowship. And so I'm constantly 139 00:06:41,658 --> 00:06:44,830 inundated with leaders, or aspiring 140 00:06:44,830 --> 00:06:50,206 leaders, and you start to pick the ones 141 00:06:50,206 --> 00:06:52,286 that are not raising their hands with 142 00:06:52,286 --> 00:06:53,910 those that don't feel worthy enough to 143 00:06:53,910 --> 00:06:58,290 raise their hand, and you start to project 144 00:06:58,290 --> 00:07:01,170 what could be on them. And watching them 145 00:07:01,170 --> 00:07:03,806 believe it and run with it, to me, is 146 00:07:03,806 --> 00:07:06,040 among some of the most rewarding work 147 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,510 ever. I think back to just this past 148 00:07:09,510 --> 00:07:13,346 March. We were the festival diaspora in 149 00:07:13,346 --> 00:07:17,026 Cartageno, Colombia, and we just had 150 00:07:17,026 --> 00:07:19,530 perhaps one of the most moving panels 151 00:07:19,530 --> 00:07:23,706 ever. And it was these five entrepreneurs, 152 00:07:23,706 --> 00:07:26,774 all women, that were part of our pitch 153 00:07:26,774 --> 00:07:28,986 competition, that were the fiNalists, and 154 00:07:28,986 --> 00:07:30,606 we wanted to hear from them. So we put on 155 00:07:30,606 --> 00:07:32,990 the device so we could hear the 156 00:07:32,990 --> 00:07:37,406 translation. And they talked about how 157 00:07:37,406 --> 00:07:39,850 this is the first time in their lives as 158 00:07:39,850 --> 00:07:42,266 adults, as college educated people, that 159 00:07:42,266 --> 00:07:43,886 they'd ever been invited to a stage in 160 00:07:43,886 --> 00:07:46,222 their own country. And it took an external 161 00:07:46,222 --> 00:07:48,194 organization, the festival diaspora, to 162 00:07:48,194 --> 00:07:52,654 tell them that they belong. And we were so 163 00:07:52,654 --> 00:07:54,158 moved, all 200 of us, pretending like 164 00:07:54,158 --> 00:07:58,434 we're not crying in that crowd, that we 165 00:07:58,434 --> 00:08:00,562 saw that mix of the secular and the 166 00:08:00,562 --> 00:08:02,566 sacred, because I said, I need someone to 167 00:08:02,566 --> 00:08:04,486 stand in front of the door, because no one 168 00:08:04,486 --> 00:08:06,134 is leaving. We're raising an offering for 169 00:08:06,134 --> 00:08:10,042 these women right now, and we raised 170 00:08:10,042 --> 00:08:12,938 $30,000 US right there in an hour. Wow. 171 00:08:12,938 --> 00:08:16,454 And create that didn't exist. And now that 172 00:08:16,454 --> 00:08:19,494 organization is called Casanovacion, and 173 00:08:19,494 --> 00:08:21,742 they're now an independent nonprofit. They 174 00:08:21,742 --> 00:08:24,298 have staff. I know because my daughter 175 00:08:24,298 --> 00:08:28,906 interned, formed this past. They're doing 176 00:08:28,906 --> 00:08:31,150 entrepreneurial boot camps all over 177 00:08:31,150 --> 00:08:35,474 Colombia for women who would never have 178 00:08:35,474 --> 00:08:37,662 access to this type of material. They're 179 00:08:37,662 --> 00:08:39,778 recruiting people from all over the 180 00:08:39,778 --> 00:08:43,666 country to deliver world class content and 181 00:08:43,666 --> 00:08:46,902 then have it translated. And it's just a 182 00:08:46,902 --> 00:08:51,286 game changer, but it started off from one 183 00:08:51,286 --> 00:08:53,686 act, right? One act, and a willingness for 184 00:08:53,686 --> 00:08:56,390 the people to also believe with me what's 185 00:08:56,390 --> 00:08:59,962 possible for those women if we do 186 00:08:59,962 --> 00:09:02,394 something, and we did, and they are now 187 00:09:02,394 --> 00:09:05,610 doing something far, far greater than our 188 00:09:05,610 --> 00:09:09,066 imaginations. It warms my heart to think 189 00:09:09,066 --> 00:09:11,102 about that story, because that literally 190 00:09:11,102 --> 00:09:13,406 just happened in March. It just happened 191 00:09:13,406 --> 00:09:16,494 in March, yeah. And here we are, November. 192 00:09:16,494 --> 00:09:18,334 And that group has really blown up. It's 193 00:09:18,334 --> 00:09:22,734 been fantastic. Wow. Oh, that's so moving 194 00:09:22,734 --> 00:09:26,666 and impactful and inspiring. I grew up in 195 00:09:26,666 --> 00:09:28,898 Venezuela, and so a lot of Colombian 196 00:09:28,898 --> 00:09:30,846 friends, both in Venezuela from when I was 197 00:09:30,846 --> 00:09:33,358 growing up, because back in the. In 198 00:09:33,358 --> 00:09:34,958 Venezuela, Colombians were coming to 199 00:09:34,958 --> 00:09:36,814 Venezuela for a better life. Now it's 200 00:09:36,814 --> 00:09:41,442 reverse, right? Yeah. Also just around the 201 00:09:41,442 --> 00:09:43,538 world, wherever I've lived, Colombians, it 202 00:09:43,538 --> 00:09:44,754 seemed to have been there, like in 203 00:09:44,754 --> 00:09:48,006 Singapore, had some good friends. And 204 00:09:48,006 --> 00:09:49,846 anyway, in the Spanish is similar enough 205 00:09:49,846 --> 00:09:52,026 to ours, and we both eat idios and 206 00:09:52,026 --> 00:09:54,026 everything. But I think that my work here 207 00:09:54,026 --> 00:09:55,514 in California, one of the things I've 208 00:09:55,514 --> 00:09:59,802 become aware of is when it comes to just 209 00:09:59,802 --> 00:10:02,366 like even equal pay for equal work, that's 210 00:10:02,366 --> 00:10:05,086 still something women don't have access to 211 00:10:05,086 --> 00:10:08,602 in a lot of jobs. But in California, our 212 00:10:08,602 --> 00:10:11,310 statistics are for Latina women, 213 00:10:11,310 --> 00:10:13,614 especially low. So I think it's like 72, 214 00:10:13,614 --> 00:10:15,074 something like that. Cents to the dollar 215 00:10:15,074 --> 00:10:18,354 for a woman compared to a white man. But 216 00:10:18,354 --> 00:10:20,974 for a Latina, I think it's something like 217 00:10:20,974 --> 00:10:23,870 $0.42 here in California, which is just 218 00:10:23,870 --> 00:10:26,066 abhorrent, actually, and horrifying 219 00:10:26,066 --> 00:10:27,826 because we do have a lot of Latinas. We 220 00:10:27,826 --> 00:10:30,198 just finished our. I work for a company. 221 00:10:30,198 --> 00:10:32,374 It has really great DEI focus. And so we 222 00:10:32,374 --> 00:10:34,722 had some speakers come in during the 223 00:10:34,722 --> 00:10:36,918 Hispanic Heritage Month to help know 224 00:10:36,918 --> 00:10:40,166 understand a whole lot more. And I just 225 00:10:40,166 --> 00:10:41,746 got back from one of our manufacturing 226 00:10:41,746 --> 00:10:43,306 sites near Memphis, where we do have a lot 227 00:10:43,306 --> 00:10:45,046 of, actually, Venezuelans who've 228 00:10:45,046 --> 00:10:46,454 immigrated, who are working in the 229 00:10:46,454 --> 00:10:48,826 manufacturing area, as well as a lot from 230 00:10:48,826 --> 00:10:51,446 all around Central and South America. And 231 00:10:51,446 --> 00:10:53,758 I'm aware here, just because of the work 232 00:10:53,758 --> 00:10:55,838 in tech and knowing, understanding a lot 233 00:10:55,838 --> 00:10:59,146 of VCs, and how women are so very 234 00:10:59,146 --> 00:11:01,002 underfunded when it comes to venture 235 00:11:01,002 --> 00:11:03,502 capitalists. So that story is incredibly 236 00:11:03,502 --> 00:11:07,086 impactful on so many levels. How would you 237 00:11:07,086 --> 00:11:11,410 describe your mission as it relates to 238 00:11:11,410 --> 00:11:17,954 women in particular? Yeah, well, I'm on 239 00:11:17,954 --> 00:11:20,600 this journey towards recall, belonging, 240 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,280 and it came upon me as I was trying to 241 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,434 think, how can I be responsive to what my 242 00:11:28,434 --> 00:11:30,802 CEO asked me to do, which was to create an 243 00:11:30,802 --> 00:11:34,246 external program. I said, wow, I'm not a 244 00:11:34,246 --> 00:11:36,534 DNI specialist, and we probably should 245 00:11:36,534 --> 00:11:40,006 hire one if that's what you want. Well, 246 00:11:40,006 --> 00:11:41,614 I'm looking for someone that understands 247 00:11:41,614 --> 00:11:44,286 the Aspen Institute, and you understand 248 00:11:44,286 --> 00:11:46,702 how we work and our programs. So I need 249 00:11:46,702 --> 00:11:50,954 you to put that thinking to this obvious 250 00:11:50,954 --> 00:11:55,106 gap that we, you know, I started digging 251 00:11:55,106 --> 00:11:58,082 in, and what I discovered is that there's 252 00:11:58,082 --> 00:12:00,846 so many people in the DNI space, so many 253 00:12:00,846 --> 00:12:01,938 organizations, that one or two things are 254 00:12:01,938 --> 00:12:06,866 going to happen. One is that we are going 255 00:12:06,866 --> 00:12:09,678 to take air out of the room for people who 256 00:12:09,678 --> 00:12:11,158 deserve it. More than we who've been at it 257 00:12:11,158 --> 00:12:12,694 for a very long time. But because we're a 258 00:12:12,694 --> 00:12:14,806 much better known organization, we're 259 00:12:14,806 --> 00:12:17,574 going to win or two. We're not going to 260 00:12:17,574 --> 00:12:20,258 add value. And so a waste of all this 261 00:12:20,258 --> 00:12:23,786 brand and we're just one of many. We're 262 00:12:23,786 --> 00:12:25,930 not moving the ball forward down the 263 00:12:25,930 --> 00:12:27,786 field. And so I kind of took a step back 264 00:12:27,786 --> 00:12:29,622 and said, okay, well, where is the 265 00:12:29,622 --> 00:12:31,946 conversation going? We've been talking 266 00:12:31,946 --> 00:12:34,282 about diversity, equity, inclusion since 267 00:12:34,282 --> 00:12:36,874 the late 60s under the Nixon 268 00:12:36,874 --> 00:12:39,134 administration when he started requesting 269 00:12:39,134 --> 00:12:41,166 a census of all the federal contractors. 270 00:12:41,166 --> 00:12:43,166 Just want to know who was doing work with 271 00:12:43,166 --> 00:12:45,038 the government. And now that we know that 272 00:12:45,038 --> 00:12:47,986 the federal government is one fifth of GDP 273 00:12:47,986 --> 00:12:49,860 in terms of purchase their goods and 274 00:12:49,860 --> 00:12:52,562 services, that's a big question. Every 275 00:12:52,562 --> 00:12:55,410 single Fortune 2000 company has the 276 00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:58,482 government as a customer, which I always 277 00:12:58,482 --> 00:13:00,118 found interesting because these also folks 278 00:13:00,118 --> 00:13:01,366 who don't want to pay taxes. I'm like, 279 00:13:01,366 --> 00:13:02,930 well, how do you think the government 280 00:13:02,930 --> 00:13:05,366 funds the work they do? It baffles me. 281 00:13:05,366 --> 00:13:09,146 Whatever baffles me as a maybe I'm not 282 00:13:09,146 --> 00:13:11,580 doing the right logic exercise. My point 283 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:17,030 is, it was apparent to me that the puck is 284 00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:22,574 heading away from that which triggers 285 00:13:22,574 --> 00:13:25,866 towards that which unites. And the 286 00:13:25,866 --> 00:13:28,542 language that unites for me is belonging. 287 00:13:28,542 --> 00:13:31,018 Because it's really easy to say, well, 288 00:13:31,018 --> 00:13:32,558 here's DNI. You're not talking to me. I'm 289 00:13:32,558 --> 00:13:34,302 a middle aged white man. You're not 290 00:13:34,302 --> 00:13:39,266 referencing me. But if I say, well, we're 291 00:13:39,266 --> 00:13:40,882 talking about belonging and thriving, I 292 00:13:40,882 --> 00:13:43,886 think years have to perk because who 293 00:13:43,886 --> 00:13:45,586 doesn't want to belong and who doesn't 294 00:13:45,586 --> 00:13:48,066 want to thrive? Now, there are many who 295 00:13:48,066 --> 00:13:49,558 want to belong, but don't want anyone else 296 00:13:49,558 --> 00:13:51,346 to belong. But it is completely 297 00:13:51,346 --> 00:13:53,046 inappropriate to voice it out loud. Okay, 298 00:13:53,046 --> 00:13:55,158 so you kind of got them. It's like those 299 00:13:55,158 --> 00:13:57,366 that recalcitrant. You kind of got them. 300 00:13:57,366 --> 00:14:03,286 And then with respect to women, we cannot 301 00:14:03,286 --> 00:14:06,730 afford to move forward as an economy 302 00:14:06,730 --> 00:14:11,190 without engaging and encouraging and 303 00:14:11,190 --> 00:14:13,498 cultivating 52% of the population. Just, 304 00:14:13,498 --> 00:14:15,786 we don't have the horses. So it's not a 305 00:14:15,786 --> 00:14:17,566 moralistic argument for me at all. This is 306 00:14:17,566 --> 00:14:19,754 like, well, how does one maintain your 307 00:14:19,754 --> 00:14:23,006 economic power for the long haul? We got 308 00:14:23,006 --> 00:14:25,182 to pull in the same direction for 309 00:14:25,182 --> 00:14:29,330 everyone. So whatever my hang up is on 310 00:14:29,330 --> 00:14:31,554 women or people who would look different 311 00:14:31,554 --> 00:14:33,634 from me, I'm going to have to get over it 312 00:14:33,634 --> 00:14:35,286 because this is about a fiduciary duties 313 00:14:35,286 --> 00:14:39,942 as leaders. And frankly, because we know 314 00:14:39,942 --> 00:14:43,078 how damaging discriminatory behavior can 315 00:14:43,078 --> 00:14:45,554 be to one's bottom line, it becomes a 316 00:14:45,554 --> 00:14:48,854 fiduciary duty that people behave in a 317 00:14:48,854 --> 00:14:50,874 certain way, a way that's acceptable to 318 00:14:50,874 --> 00:14:53,946 the current morals of our society. And so 319 00:14:53,946 --> 00:14:55,914 if you imagine being a board of director 320 00:14:55,914 --> 00:14:58,986 and knowing that your CEO, who the only 321 00:14:58,986 --> 00:15:00,874 person that you manage is intentionally 322 00:15:00,874 --> 00:15:03,454 not engaging a particular customer set 323 00:15:03,454 --> 00:15:04,878 just because he or she doesn't like the 324 00:15:04,878 --> 00:15:07,966 way they look, sound, their national 325 00:15:07,966 --> 00:15:09,774 origin, this is not a person you can keep 326 00:15:09,774 --> 00:15:11,920 on board because they're clearly not 327 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,086 thinking with your and a company's future 328 00:15:15,086 --> 00:15:17,246 in mind, they should know what the 329 00:15:17,246 --> 00:15:19,298 customers 35 years down the road is going 330 00:15:19,298 --> 00:15:21,138 to look like. And trust me, they're not 331 00:15:21,138 --> 00:15:23,090 going to look like the current ones. All 332 00:15:23,090 --> 00:15:25,006 right? And so you got to figure out where 333 00:15:25,006 --> 00:15:27,126 it's going. It's obviously going towards 334 00:15:27,126 --> 00:15:30,354 more diversity if you look at any 335 00:15:30,354 --> 00:15:32,246 demographic study. And so doesn't it make 336 00:15:32,246 --> 00:15:34,546 sense to start investing now? That is not 337 00:15:34,546 --> 00:15:36,854 corporate wokeness. That's you exercising 338 00:15:36,854 --> 00:15:40,306 your fiduciary duties as an executive, 339 00:15:40,306 --> 00:15:41,866 knowing down the road what your customer 340 00:15:41,866 --> 00:15:43,994 is going to look like. And so I think as 341 00:15:43,994 --> 00:15:47,260 we get people to change the words they're 342 00:15:47,260 --> 00:15:50,494 using, it becomes a lot easier to do the 343 00:15:50,494 --> 00:15:57,582 right thing, becomes a lot more defensible 344 00:15:57,582 --> 00:15:59,470 because I get it. You get a lot of 345 00:15:59,470 --> 00:16:02,646 pressure right now. There are several US 346 00:16:02,646 --> 00:16:06,286 senators sending notes to corporate 347 00:16:06,286 --> 00:16:09,138 leaders that have been outspoken on their 348 00:16:09,138 --> 00:16:11,198 work with respect to diverse customer 349 00:16:11,198 --> 00:16:14,126 sets, saying, hey, with this anti 350 00:16:14,126 --> 00:16:15,678 permaction ruling, you now can't do that. 351 00:16:15,678 --> 00:16:17,026 They're really extending the logic. I 352 00:16:17,026 --> 00:16:18,802 don't think they're correct. And most 353 00:16:18,802 --> 00:16:20,946 companies are saying that's not what our 354 00:16:20,946 --> 00:16:23,490 legal analysis holds. We believe that 355 00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:24,598 you're a little off on this one, so we're 356 00:16:24,598 --> 00:16:26,338 going to keep moving forward. Moreover, 357 00:16:26,338 --> 00:16:28,326 here's the data where our customers are. 358 00:16:28,326 --> 00:16:32,982 So if you have a better idea for how I can 359 00:16:32,982 --> 00:16:34,826 manage my fiduciary duty with respect to 360 00:16:34,826 --> 00:16:37,414 my customers, I am all ears. But if you 361 00:16:37,414 --> 00:16:39,014 don't really, I think you got a lot of 362 00:16:39,014 --> 00:16:40,620 legislating to do. You should focus on 363 00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:44,858 that. Yeah, absolutely. I think it just 364 00:16:44,858 --> 00:16:48,240 brings up the point. Number one, what you 365 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,126 mentioned know the fiduciary side of 366 00:16:52,126 --> 00:16:53,726 things. I mean, we have, case in point 367 00:16:53,726 --> 00:16:56,786 this summer we had Taylor Swift raising 368 00:16:56,786 --> 00:16:58,606 the economy all by herself. She just 369 00:16:58,606 --> 00:17:01,634 became a billionaire, right? Making music 370 00:17:01,634 --> 00:17:03,730 about the lived experience of growing up a 371 00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:06,246 girl and becoming a. Like, this is half 372 00:17:06,246 --> 00:17:08,066 the world, right? And then you have 373 00:17:08,066 --> 00:17:13,074 Beyonce also crushing it, also raising the 374 00:17:13,074 --> 00:17:14,674 economy as well. You have the Barbie 375 00:17:14,674 --> 00:17:16,786 movie, a movie that centers women, 376 00:17:16,786 --> 00:17:19,218 directed by women, written by women, about 377 00:17:19,218 --> 00:17:21,722 the experience of women, centering women. 378 00:17:21,722 --> 00:17:23,866 And guess what? People wanted to see that 379 00:17:23,866 --> 00:17:25,834 there is something about the economy, 380 00:17:25,834 --> 00:17:27,994 where centering experiences of other 381 00:17:27,994 --> 00:17:31,386 people is something people want. But at 382 00:17:31,386 --> 00:17:32,894 the same time, when we're talking about 383 00:17:32,894 --> 00:17:34,462 making a difference, I think you're also 384 00:17:34,462 --> 00:17:36,958 making the point that, and I would highly 385 00:17:36,958 --> 00:17:41,230 agree, that change happens in a lot of 386 00:17:41,230 --> 00:17:43,294 different spaces, and coming together is 387 00:17:43,294 --> 00:17:45,614 really important. So we have nonprofits 388 00:17:45,614 --> 00:17:47,426 doing incredible work. We have government 389 00:17:47,426 --> 00:17:49,346 that has an incredible role in terms of 390 00:17:49,346 --> 00:17:51,234 how they make laws and how they enforce 391 00:17:51,234 --> 00:17:54,194 those laws. And then we have tech 392 00:17:54,194 --> 00:17:56,806 companies that are extremely influential 393 00:17:56,806 --> 00:17:59,394 with social media and can either 394 00:17:59,394 --> 00:18:01,714 contribute to great nation building 395 00:18:01,714 --> 00:18:04,760 exercises, or they can destroy the society 396 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,006 from our young girls on Instagram all the 397 00:18:08,006 --> 00:18:09,754 way up until adulthood. Right. And so 398 00:18:09,754 --> 00:18:12,298 there is this opportunity for us to come 399 00:18:12,298 --> 00:18:14,586 together to do good and make a difference 400 00:18:14,586 --> 00:18:17,498 together. But there's so many opinions and 401 00:18:17,498 --> 00:18:22,074 very opposing ones. As you're working on 402 00:18:22,074 --> 00:18:23,434 belonging and you're at the Aspen 403 00:18:23,434 --> 00:18:25,534 Institute Socrates program and working 404 00:18:25,534 --> 00:18:28,362 through all these things, how have you 405 00:18:28,362 --> 00:18:31,854 overcome some of those obstacles? Yeah, 406 00:18:31,854 --> 00:18:33,774 well, we've had to do some internal work. 407 00:18:33,774 --> 00:18:35,920 Like, for instance, there's a thing we 408 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,326 say, no mantles. We're putting together 409 00:18:39,326 --> 00:18:41,586 slates of moderators all the time. Love 410 00:18:41,586 --> 00:18:47,346 that. Often publishers are. You can't just 411 00:18:47,346 --> 00:18:49,606 go with what you're capable with. I happen 412 00:18:49,606 --> 00:18:53,606 to know mostly men. Okay. And if I were 413 00:18:53,606 --> 00:18:56,566 just to pick a slate of three moderators 414 00:18:56,566 --> 00:18:59,334 to do concurrent seminars, I'm going to 415 00:18:59,334 --> 00:19:01,226 look across my network. That's, like, the 416 00:19:01,226 --> 00:19:03,386 first thing I do, what I've asked my team 417 00:19:03,386 --> 00:19:06,442 to do over the last several years. I said, 418 00:19:06,442 --> 00:19:09,114 number one, let's co create this. That's 419 00:19:09,114 --> 00:19:10,826 number one, because you also have 420 00:19:10,826 --> 00:19:13,534 networks. Number two, just because I get 421 00:19:13,534 --> 00:19:17,102 super excited about these two, like, say, 422 00:19:17,102 --> 00:19:21,434 hey, Cordell, have you considered, please 423 00:19:21,434 --> 00:19:24,406 push back against me to make sure that 424 00:19:24,406 --> 00:19:28,066 we're fulfilling or at least accomplishing 425 00:19:28,066 --> 00:19:29,950 the optical challenge? Like, this is the 426 00:19:29,950 --> 00:19:32,914 aspect we can't put out three men as our 427 00:19:32,914 --> 00:19:34,290 standard bearers for this particular 428 00:19:34,290 --> 00:19:37,078 event. No, we're not going to do that. And 429 00:19:37,078 --> 00:19:40,486 so let those panels reflect the diversity 430 00:19:40,486 --> 00:19:43,462 of our country. So it requires more work, 431 00:19:43,462 --> 00:19:46,774 no doubt. But this is good work. This is 432 00:19:46,774 --> 00:19:50,214 good work. It forces us to move beyond the 433 00:19:50,214 --> 00:19:52,330 comfort levels. And what we're finding is 434 00:19:52,330 --> 00:19:55,718 that those new people that we bring in 435 00:19:55,718 --> 00:19:57,674 beget more people, people we wouldn't, 436 00:19:57,674 --> 00:20:00,230 because their networks are now part of our 437 00:20:00,230 --> 00:20:02,830 work. And you find it actually becomes 438 00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:08,074 easier to find diverse groups of 439 00:20:08,074 --> 00:20:10,126 moderators and participants just because 440 00:20:10,126 --> 00:20:12,502 those people bring something new to the 441 00:20:12,502 --> 00:20:14,818 table. And so it's harder work up front, 442 00:20:14,818 --> 00:20:18,066 but it's easier on the back end, for sure. 443 00:20:18,066 --> 00:20:22,734 Yeah, that makes sense, which is passion 444 00:20:22,734 --> 00:20:25,410 projects becoming its own robust 445 00:20:25,410 --> 00:20:28,482 organization. If you look across economic 446 00:20:28,482 --> 00:20:29,986 development, you say, okay, what's the 447 00:20:29,986 --> 00:20:32,706 fastest way for a country to develop? 448 00:20:32,706 --> 00:20:34,518 Invariably, it's going to be develop their 449 00:20:34,518 --> 00:20:38,818 women, because there is more women. And in 450 00:20:38,818 --> 00:20:40,794 so many ways, they're the glue that hold 451 00:20:40,794 --> 00:20:43,386 these communities together. And as you 452 00:20:43,386 --> 00:20:47,226 know, in know, it is a lot easier for men 453 00:20:47,226 --> 00:20:51,410 to have access to venture funding, to 454 00:20:51,410 --> 00:20:54,266 entrepreneurial support systems. And so 455 00:20:54,266 --> 00:20:57,950 creating that for women has been a focus 456 00:20:57,950 --> 00:21:00,094 of the festival, starting in Puerto Rico, 457 00:21:00,094 --> 00:21:01,386 moving to Colombia, now we have a 458 00:21:01,386 --> 00:21:03,598 permanent office in Medellin, and now 459 00:21:03,598 --> 00:21:05,762 we're moving forward to Rio de Janeiro and 460 00:21:05,762 --> 00:21:08,850 being exposed to those entrepreneurial. 461 00:21:08,850 --> 00:21:10,446 You know, you have a funder. Our main 462 00:21:10,446 --> 00:21:11,966 funder is Black Ambition, which is 463 00:21:11,966 --> 00:21:16,766 Pharrell Williams nonprofit. He funds the 464 00:21:16,766 --> 00:21:18,278 prize money for the pitch competitions. 465 00:21:18,278 --> 00:21:20,198 And then we pick the panelists that are 466 00:21:20,198 --> 00:21:22,502 going to judge. And so we're constantly, 467 00:21:22,502 --> 00:21:26,034 every year, being exposed to a new crop of 468 00:21:26,034 --> 00:21:27,926 female entrepreneurs. And the hope is that 469 00:21:27,926 --> 00:21:30,566 five years down the road, all these 470 00:21:30,566 --> 00:21:31,882 cohorts from different countries are 471 00:21:31,882 --> 00:21:33,626 starting to come together and be a part of 472 00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:35,686 each other's lives, be part of each 473 00:21:35,686 --> 00:21:39,462 other's supply chain, and creating more 474 00:21:39,462 --> 00:21:41,694 economic opportunity for themselves and 475 00:21:41,694 --> 00:21:44,510 their communities. And this is just 476 00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:47,982 talking about 30 women at a time in these 477 00:21:47,982 --> 00:21:49,706 different countries. But I think the 478 00:21:49,706 --> 00:21:52,750 impact you can have is massive with that 479 00:21:52,750 --> 00:21:55,422 focus effort. And so we're super excited 480 00:21:55,422 --> 00:21:58,240 about that particular line of work as 481 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,586 well. That is very exciting. I just can't 482 00:22:01,586 --> 00:22:02,978 wait to see some of the things that come 483 00:22:02,978 --> 00:22:09,206 out of obviously, Latina women, even here 484 00:22:09,206 --> 00:22:11,734 in California, as I mentioned, have even 485 00:22:11,734 --> 00:22:14,150 less opportunity. But if we just look at 486 00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:15,766 women as a whole, even in California, 487 00:22:15,766 --> 00:22:18,150 where I live, venture capitalism is not 488 00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:19,718 something women have as much access to. 489 00:22:19,718 --> 00:22:23,146 It's definitely a bro club, for sure. And 490 00:22:23,146 --> 00:22:25,500 there is a lot of performance bias around 491 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:28,780 that. I also just want to unpack some of 492 00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:31,338 the. Your efforts are really shifting sort 493 00:22:31,338 --> 00:22:33,674 of this national conversation on racial 494 00:22:33,674 --> 00:22:36,234 equity, though, and inclusion from both 495 00:22:36,234 --> 00:22:37,918 compliance to belonging. Could you share 496 00:22:37,918 --> 00:22:39,914 some of your key strategies and 497 00:22:39,914 --> 00:22:41,534 initiatives you've been helping to work 498 00:22:41,534 --> 00:22:43,246 through to sort of achieve some of this 499 00:22:43,246 --> 00:22:44,686 shift? And what are your obstacles that 500 00:22:44,686 --> 00:22:48,130 you're still working through? Yeah. So, 501 00:22:48,130 --> 00:22:51,250 number one, I call it dispassionate 502 00:22:51,250 --> 00:22:59,734 passion. I should say less interested in 503 00:22:59,734 --> 00:23:03,846 an emotional, spiritual, moral obligation 504 00:23:03,846 --> 00:23:07,538 to do the right thing as one that's more 505 00:23:07,538 --> 00:23:10,486 focused on fiduciary duty and improving 506 00:23:10,486 --> 00:23:13,194 shareholder growth, to me, that's a safer 507 00:23:13,194 --> 00:23:16,406 place to be. I need something else to 508 00:23:16,406 --> 00:23:18,778 motivate folks. And so I'm like, we have 509 00:23:18,778 --> 00:23:21,302 to be able to connect the work of 510 00:23:21,302 --> 00:23:24,254 inclusion and equity to the bottom line of 511 00:23:24,254 --> 00:23:26,386 whatever your organization is. So I don't 512 00:23:26,386 --> 00:23:28,686 know if you know, about six months ago, 513 00:23:28,686 --> 00:23:31,310 there was a lot of chief DNI officers 514 00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:37,374 losing their. Yes, yes. Big impact. Huge. 515 00:23:37,374 --> 00:23:40,418 Right. And what I was discussing, many of 516 00:23:40,418 --> 00:23:44,466 these former executives, they lack budget, 517 00:23:44,466 --> 00:23:46,926 they lack team, and more importantly, they 518 00:23:46,926 --> 00:23:48,898 lack the obvious connection to the P L 519 00:23:48,898 --> 00:23:50,630 profit and loss of their organization. 520 00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:53,538 Yeah. I think your job, you're doing a job 521 00:23:53,538 --> 00:23:57,254 that's focused on inclusion or sales. You 522 00:23:57,254 --> 00:24:00,134 have to be able to show how this effort 523 00:24:00,134 --> 00:24:04,026 drives a particular metric. That's what 524 00:24:04,026 --> 00:24:06,554 your boards are looking at. Like, you take 525 00:24:06,554 --> 00:24:08,966 away all the politics, all of the 526 00:24:08,966 --> 00:24:11,146 emotional fervor of a particular issue. At 527 00:24:11,146 --> 00:24:13,382 the end of the day, either you're driving 528 00:24:13,382 --> 00:24:14,958 revenue or you're a cost center. If you're 529 00:24:14,958 --> 00:24:17,166 a cost center, you're nice to have and so 530 00:24:17,166 --> 00:24:20,394 you're not nice to be had. Okay. And you 531 00:24:20,394 --> 00:24:23,726 can't blame for that. They are amoral. 532 00:24:23,726 --> 00:24:26,606 They have to be amoral. We're trying to 533 00:24:26,606 --> 00:24:29,550 force them not to be, but they have to be 534 00:24:29,550 --> 00:24:32,654 amoral in order to, I think, make some 535 00:24:32,654 --> 00:24:35,902 tough calls that maybe do not stem from 536 00:24:35,902 --> 00:24:37,678 patriotism or particular bit of politics, 537 00:24:37,678 --> 00:24:40,706 but is good for their shareholders. So 538 00:24:40,706 --> 00:24:41,846 that's number one. What's your connection 539 00:24:41,846 --> 00:24:44,038 to PNL? And I increasingly drive that. 540 00:24:44,038 --> 00:24:46,086 What are the metrics? So my questions have 541 00:24:46,086 --> 00:24:49,682 absolutely changed. Number two, we have to 542 00:24:49,682 --> 00:24:51,130 nurture what I call professional learning 543 00:24:51,130 --> 00:24:53,098 community of leaders that are interesting 544 00:24:53,098 --> 00:24:54,966 issues. They are not chief diversity at 545 00:24:54,966 --> 00:24:57,706 inclusion officers, they're executive VPs 546 00:24:57,706 --> 00:25:01,786 of XYZ. But they care about these issues. 547 00:25:01,786 --> 00:25:03,366 You have to be able to give them some 548 00:25:03,366 --> 00:25:05,230 tools that they can use that are easily to 549 00:25:05,230 --> 00:25:07,642 apply to your industry and their 550 00:25:07,642 --> 00:25:08,846 organizations that make sense for them. 551 00:25:08,846 --> 00:25:10,686 Things that are defensible. You don't want 552 00:25:10,686 --> 00:25:13,486 them out on a limb on these things. And so 553 00:25:13,486 --> 00:25:14,990 that is something that we can definitely 554 00:25:14,990 --> 00:25:18,466 do as think tank and Aspen Institute. We 555 00:25:18,466 --> 00:25:20,066 are great conveners. We can convene these 556 00:25:20,066 --> 00:25:23,714 people together. So that's number two. The 557 00:25:23,714 --> 00:25:27,446 third thing that we're finding is that 558 00:25:27,446 --> 00:25:31,094 people are looking for opportunities to 559 00:25:31,094 --> 00:25:32,498 talk about the best practices, that 560 00:25:32,498 --> 00:25:35,640 they're orientation on big public stages. 561 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,454 Okay? They want a pat on the back. It's 562 00:25:38,454 --> 00:25:41,106 important. They want their CEO to be well 563 00:25:41,106 --> 00:25:43,674 positioned to speak about the amazing 564 00:25:43,674 --> 00:25:45,274 things his or her company are doing in 565 00:25:45,274 --> 00:25:47,978 this regard. And so we have to continue to 566 00:25:47,978 --> 00:25:50,006 provide those spaces. So this is what the 567 00:25:50,006 --> 00:25:52,090 festival of Diaspora is. It's a global 568 00:25:52,090 --> 00:25:56,286 stage in Latin America. We're working on 569 00:25:56,286 --> 00:25:58,640 two or three large convenings here in the 570 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,926 US, along with some other partners that 571 00:26:00,926 --> 00:26:05,394 can feature various aspects of inclusion 572 00:26:05,394 --> 00:26:10,590 and belonging. But I believe to my very 573 00:26:10,590 --> 00:26:12,978 core that we are all after the same thing, 574 00:26:12,978 --> 00:26:15,274 that we want to live society where we all 575 00:26:15,274 --> 00:26:17,158 belong and enjoy equitable opportunities 576 00:26:17,158 --> 00:26:21,160 to thrive. One of our problems is that we 577 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,674 have went Hogwell on DNI, and it's a 578 00:26:24,674 --> 00:26:27,640 strategy. We never define a destination. 579 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,906 Okay. Compliance or making sure you do 580 00:26:30,906 --> 00:26:33,670 your census every year. No, it's to make 581 00:26:33,670 --> 00:26:37,020 society a more fair, just place. But no 582 00:26:37,020 --> 00:26:39,882 one has gone there, so we're trying to go 583 00:26:39,882 --> 00:26:42,166 there. This is where the puck is going, 584 00:26:42,166 --> 00:26:45,290 belonging and thriving. And so let's start 585 00:26:45,290 --> 00:26:47,774 celebrating that right now. And that's 586 00:26:47,774 --> 00:26:49,502 what a lot of the work that I do on the 587 00:26:49,502 --> 00:26:51,978 project of belonging is focused on. It's 588 00:26:51,978 --> 00:26:54,634 focused on that. How do we get to this 589 00:26:54,634 --> 00:26:56,466 endpoint? And so I'm trying. Last thing, 590 00:26:56,466 --> 00:26:58,514 and I'll mention is I would like to build 591 00:26:58,514 --> 00:27:01,662 out a cohort experience for people to go 592 00:27:01,662 --> 00:27:03,922 deep on two things. One is, well, three 593 00:27:03,922 --> 00:27:05,378 things. One is American history. I think 594 00:27:05,378 --> 00:27:08,222 we have an amazing story. I call it 595 00:27:08,222 --> 00:27:11,218 becoming Republic. In fact, it's one of my 596 00:27:11,218 --> 00:27:12,898 signature seminars. I just did one for a 597 00:27:12,898 --> 00:27:15,574 private equity firm last week in New York, 598 00:27:15,574 --> 00:27:18,054 and the book is forthcoming. And it's this 599 00:27:18,054 --> 00:27:21,114 idea of looking last 148 years of American 600 00:27:21,114 --> 00:27:23,162 history and asking yourself three 601 00:27:23,162 --> 00:27:25,386 questions, who is we? How is our notion of 602 00:27:25,386 --> 00:27:26,954 we evolved? And thirdly, where do we go 603 00:27:26,954 --> 00:27:31,242 from here? And then I notice that we never 604 00:27:31,242 --> 00:27:33,902 ask anything of Americans. We just say, 605 00:27:33,902 --> 00:27:35,406 okay, you have a blue passport. You're 606 00:27:35,406 --> 00:27:37,678 good. You're one of us. There's no notion 607 00:27:37,678 --> 00:27:40,782 of national service. The question 608 00:27:40,782 --> 00:27:42,462 President Kennedy asked, ask not what your 609 00:27:42,462 --> 00:27:43,458 country do for you, what you can do for 610 00:27:43,458 --> 00:27:45,950 your country. That seems anathema. And 611 00:27:45,950 --> 00:27:48,494 Pollyanna. No, that's a real thing. 612 00:27:48,494 --> 00:27:51,054 Democracies take work, and it's a co 613 00:27:51,054 --> 00:27:53,006 creative enterprise. And so, just 614 00:27:53,006 --> 00:27:56,658 reminding people through book excerpts, 615 00:27:56,658 --> 00:28:01,122 it's all text based speeches and asking 616 00:28:01,122 --> 00:28:03,206 provocative questions. Where are you going 617 00:28:03,206 --> 00:28:05,378 as a leader? What is your leadership 618 00:28:05,378 --> 00:28:08,086 style? How is this impacting you? I see 619 00:28:08,086 --> 00:28:11,202 that America, as a great enterprise, and 620 00:28:11,202 --> 00:28:12,726 founding generations, there's been 621 00:28:12,726 --> 00:28:15,894 multiple, in my view, are part of that co 622 00:28:15,894 --> 00:28:19,706 creation process. And it's our time know, 623 00:28:19,706 --> 00:28:23,040 what are we going to do to make this a 624 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,542 much better version of what it was when we 625 00:28:26,542 --> 00:28:31,934 found it? And so it calls for some tough 626 00:28:31,934 --> 00:28:34,034 questions. But at least three times a 627 00:28:34,034 --> 00:28:36,690 month, I'm working with either executive 628 00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:39,758 team, boards of directors, or just a 629 00:28:39,758 --> 00:28:41,362 smaller group of leaders that want to 630 00:28:41,362 --> 00:28:44,370 learn together on these very issues. Via 631 00:28:44,370 --> 00:28:46,466 that particular exercise, becoming an 632 00:28:46,466 --> 00:28:49,542 inclusive republic. And so people want to 633 00:28:49,542 --> 00:28:52,134 learn from each other. They do. People 634 00:28:52,134 --> 00:28:57,206 want to be inspired by what we could be. 635 00:28:57,206 --> 00:28:59,254 They find it really hard to separate the 636 00:28:59,254 --> 00:29:01,754 politics from everything. They find it 637 00:29:01,754 --> 00:29:04,394 really like, I'm losing that. This isn't a 638 00:29:04,394 --> 00:29:07,594 zero sum game. And I'm like, guys, the 639 00:29:07,594 --> 00:29:10,506 opportunity that is America is if it were 640 00:29:10,506 --> 00:29:13,994 a pie, you wouldn't have enough spoons in 641 00:29:13,994 --> 00:29:16,798 the world to possibly swoop it all. Like, 642 00:29:16,798 --> 00:29:18,526 you can have ten spoons and you're just 643 00:29:18,526 --> 00:29:20,318 the stuff and you're laying in the hole 644 00:29:20,318 --> 00:29:22,174 that you created in the pie. And there's 645 00:29:22,174 --> 00:29:24,126 people you see just laid out all around 646 00:29:24,126 --> 00:29:26,674 you. That's the bounty that is the United 647 00:29:26,674 --> 00:29:29,220 States of America. So let's celebrate 648 00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:30,914 that. You don't even really have to worry 649 00:29:30,914 --> 00:29:32,766 about sharing. It doesn't really matter if 650 00:29:32,766 --> 00:29:34,722 you're sharing. There's plenty for others. 651 00:29:34,722 --> 00:29:36,446 Okay. There's plenty. It's like I was in a 652 00:29:36,446 --> 00:29:38,498 Savannah yesterday, and as far as I can 653 00:29:38,498 --> 00:29:40,706 see, in every single direction was just 654 00:29:40,706 --> 00:29:42,018 Savannah. And there's giraffes and there's 655 00:29:42,018 --> 00:29:43,574 zebra and the wildebeest and the lions are 656 00:29:43,574 --> 00:29:46,358 right here. And they're know a teepo that 657 00:29:46,358 --> 00:29:49,074 he just killed. But no, like, look, 658 00:29:49,074 --> 00:29:51,622 they're good. Look, there's millions of 659 00:29:51,622 --> 00:29:54,794 animals here, so we're good. There's stuff 660 00:29:54,794 --> 00:29:57,382 right now. We can continue eating this 661 00:29:57,382 --> 00:29:59,286 grass. You got to think like that. The 662 00:29:59,286 --> 00:30:00,710 wildebeest aren't going to run from every 663 00:30:00,710 --> 00:30:03,566 lion because there's plenty of wildebeest 664 00:30:03,566 --> 00:30:04,846 and there's plenty of lion. There's plenty 665 00:30:04,846 --> 00:30:07,454 of opportunity. And so if I can get folks 666 00:30:07,454 --> 00:30:11,530 to focus on us being this asset rich 667 00:30:11,530 --> 00:30:14,778 environment we really are, and that no one 668 00:30:14,778 --> 00:30:17,010 is taking something from you by them 669 00:30:17,010 --> 00:30:19,218 achieving. I don't know where. Well, I do 670 00:30:19,218 --> 00:30:21,426 know where it came from, but I should say 671 00:30:21,426 --> 00:30:25,406 I know how it continues. It's very 672 00:30:25,406 --> 00:30:28,966 lucrative politically to cause separation, 673 00:30:28,966 --> 00:30:33,206 to pit people against each other. I just 674 00:30:33,206 --> 00:30:35,126 need some people to be statespersons and 675 00:30:35,126 --> 00:30:36,550 to care about where we're going as a 676 00:30:36,550 --> 00:30:38,146 country more than what they personally are 677 00:30:38,146 --> 00:30:42,234 getting out of that transaction. There I 678 00:30:42,234 --> 00:30:44,666 go, preaching. There you go. There you go. 679 00:30:44,666 --> 00:30:48,554 We got you on a pulpit. Yeah. No, that's 680 00:30:48,554 --> 00:30:50,810 so fascinating. Just to hear from your 681 00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:53,766 perspective and your vantage point. I 682 00:30:53,766 --> 00:30:55,530 lived in Asia for 20 years. I grew up in 683 00:30:55,530 --> 00:30:56,926 Latin America, so I grew up in Venezuela 684 00:30:56,926 --> 00:30:59,006 and Costa Rica, in international schools 685 00:30:59,006 --> 00:31:00,734 with friends and teachers from everywhere. 686 00:31:00,734 --> 00:31:03,790 Right. And then I lived in Asia for 20 687 00:31:03,790 --> 00:31:05,898 years, working in Indonesia for ten years 688 00:31:05,898 --> 00:31:08,126 and Singapore for ten years. And in 689 00:31:08,126 --> 00:31:09,666 Singapore in particular. Just the 690 00:31:09,666 --> 00:31:14,242 government is an unusual story. They do 691 00:31:14,242 --> 00:31:17,474 have national service. It's part of what 692 00:31:17,474 --> 00:31:20,486 they did to protect themselves when they 693 00:31:20,486 --> 00:31:22,306 were no longer a British colony. And then 694 00:31:22,306 --> 00:31:24,070 Malaysia decided they also didn't want to 695 00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:25,686 be connected with Singapore. So it was 696 00:31:25,686 --> 00:31:30,006 just this little island that, in 1965, 697 00:31:30,006 --> 00:31:32,262 didn't even have running water and 698 00:31:32,262 --> 00:31:35,734 toilets. And now it's like an incredibly 699 00:31:35,734 --> 00:31:37,994 gorgeous developed place with incredible 700 00:31:37,994 --> 00:31:39,978 health care and some of the best education 701 00:31:39,978 --> 00:31:43,594 in the world. And it's a marvel. But they 702 00:31:43,594 --> 00:31:45,406 do have national service, and part of it 703 00:31:45,406 --> 00:31:46,846 is that they were needing to protect 704 00:31:46,846 --> 00:31:48,954 themselves from being vulnerable with 705 00:31:48,954 --> 00:31:51,518 Indonesia and Malaysia so close by. But 706 00:31:51,518 --> 00:31:53,562 also it became this nation building 707 00:31:53,562 --> 00:31:55,566 exercise. So one of my favorite things to 708 00:31:55,566 --> 00:31:57,234 do when I lived in Singapore was whenever 709 00:31:57,234 --> 00:32:00,434 I met a man who looked like he's old 710 00:32:00,434 --> 00:32:01,742 enough to have already finished his 711 00:32:01,742 --> 00:32:03,586 national service, which they do right out 712 00:32:03,586 --> 00:32:06,082 of their secondary school, I would usually 713 00:32:06,082 --> 00:32:10,130 ask them, what was your kind of branch of 714 00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:12,918 NS? They call it national service. And 715 00:32:12,918 --> 00:32:15,154 every time, whether it was a doctor or a 716 00:32:15,154 --> 00:32:17,174 lawyer or just anybody I was meeting, they 717 00:32:17,174 --> 00:32:20,218 would get into the story that you could 718 00:32:20,218 --> 00:32:23,014 tell was so meaningful, and it usually 719 00:32:23,014 --> 00:32:24,682 revolved around the friends they made 720 00:32:24,682 --> 00:32:27,274 during that time. Because Singapore wasn't 721 00:32:27,274 --> 00:32:30,300 at war during any of that time and hasn't 722 00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:34,206 been. They did send some troops to help us 723 00:32:34,206 --> 00:32:35,946 in Indonesia. I worked in the tsunami 724 00:32:35,946 --> 00:32:38,702 relief area, and Singapore did know a 725 00:32:38,702 --> 00:32:40,426 large contingent just to help with the 726 00:32:40,426 --> 00:32:42,830 disaster relief, which was great. But 727 00:32:42,830 --> 00:32:45,234 mostly you might have a Malay Muslim who 728 00:32:45,234 --> 00:32:50,978 was bunking with Indian Singaporean Hindu, 729 00:32:50,978 --> 00:32:54,626 or in a Chinese Singaporean Christian. And 730 00:32:54,626 --> 00:32:57,250 the thing is, they are lifelong friends. 731 00:32:57,250 --> 00:32:58,966 Usually that experience bonded them with 732 00:32:58,966 --> 00:33:00,966 one another. And so instead of a 733 00:33:00,966 --> 00:33:02,470 government that was sort of pitting them 734 00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:05,938 against one another, they really built a 735 00:33:05,938 --> 00:33:08,182 society about harmony. Now, is it perfect? 736 00:33:08,182 --> 00:33:11,686 No. There's a lot of still work to do and 737 00:33:11,686 --> 00:33:13,594 choices they've made as a social democracy 738 00:33:13,594 --> 00:33:15,994 that Americans often get kind of crazy 739 00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:17,738 about when I say they don't have freedom 740 00:33:17,738 --> 00:33:21,274 of the press and things like, um, and they 741 00:33:21,274 --> 00:33:24,006 know, have death penalty for drug 742 00:33:24,006 --> 00:33:26,046 trafficking, but it's a very safe place, 743 00:33:26,046 --> 00:33:28,314 so they've made some choices. But I 744 00:33:28,314 --> 00:33:29,598 juxtaposed that with a couple of weeks ago 745 00:33:29,598 --> 00:33:32,106 when I was in Memphis for work, leading a 746 00:33:32,106 --> 00:33:33,806 leadership summit with our company there. 747 00:33:33,806 --> 00:33:35,662 And I went to the National Civil Rights 748 00:33:35,662 --> 00:33:37,918 Museum, and they know, showing not only 749 00:33:37,918 --> 00:33:39,854 Emmett Till and what happened with him in 750 00:33:39,854 --> 00:33:43,566 Mississippi, which is horrific, but know 751 00:33:43,566 --> 00:33:45,506 enslaved peoples being brought from Africa 752 00:33:45,506 --> 00:33:47,918 on these ships to force labor camps, 753 00:33:47,918 --> 00:33:49,654 offered tobacco and cotton. And then you 754 00:33:49,654 --> 00:33:52,114 see the whole process of the civil rights 755 00:33:52,114 --> 00:33:54,454 movement that's until now, still work to 756 00:33:54,454 --> 00:33:56,726 do. And you see how even the government 757 00:33:56,726 --> 00:33:58,918 was pitting people against one another and 758 00:33:58,918 --> 00:34:01,634 how we do have this history that's very 759 00:34:01,634 --> 00:34:03,226 different than a place like Singapore that 760 00:34:03,226 --> 00:34:05,734 was bonding people together. It is a 761 00:34:05,734 --> 00:34:08,006 scarcity mentality. Yeah. What are your 762 00:34:08,006 --> 00:34:09,766 thoughts on all of that? As somebody who's 763 00:34:09,766 --> 00:34:14,910 dug into the. You know, we have example 764 00:34:14,910 --> 00:34:18,010 after example of, I should say, every 765 00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:20,574 generation of leaders in this country, of 766 00:34:20,574 --> 00:34:25,074 the masses seeking to exclude and the few 767 00:34:25,074 --> 00:34:28,354 and brave amongst them saying, no, we have 768 00:34:28,354 --> 00:34:31,886 to include. And so I reflect back to the 769 00:34:31,886 --> 00:34:34,178 Declaration of Independence, and it's one 770 00:34:34,178 --> 00:34:36,558 of the writings that I feature and 771 00:34:36,558 --> 00:34:38,386 becoming inclusive republic. And I said, 772 00:34:38,386 --> 00:34:40,406 does everyone in this room believe that 773 00:34:40,406 --> 00:34:42,722 the men in this room and that room in 774 00:34:42,722 --> 00:34:45,078 Philadelphia in 1776 had full command of 775 00:34:45,078 --> 00:34:47,334 the English language, as far as we know? 776 00:34:47,334 --> 00:34:48,886 They look at me, I said, and I asked the 777 00:34:48,886 --> 00:34:51,750 question again, did they mean what they 778 00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:54,074 wrote? Yeah. Did they have the power to 779 00:34:54,074 --> 00:34:55,946 change the words? And I go through the 780 00:34:55,946 --> 00:34:58,586 list of synonyms like, we hold the truth 781 00:34:58,586 --> 00:34:59,766 to be self evident. That wasn't the 782 00:34:59,766 --> 00:35:01,210 original word. The original word was 783 00:35:01,210 --> 00:35:03,642 sacred life, liberty, in pursuit of 784 00:35:03,642 --> 00:35:04,766 happiness. Happiness was not the original 785 00:35:04,766 --> 00:35:06,686 word. The original word was property. So 786 00:35:06,686 --> 00:35:09,210 it was clear that they were a larger 787 00:35:09,210 --> 00:35:13,282 audience. They could have said just us, 788 00:35:13,282 --> 00:35:15,666 that only us room, only people who like 789 00:35:15,666 --> 00:35:18,754 us. They left the door open. Okay? And 790 00:35:18,754 --> 00:35:23,586 that aspirational document is how we build 791 00:35:23,586 --> 00:35:26,058 our garner, our sense of character, of 792 00:35:26,058 --> 00:35:27,878 national character. This is what we aspire 793 00:35:27,878 --> 00:35:30,486 to. It's a non legally binding document. 794 00:35:30,486 --> 00:35:32,594 The Constitution binds us together, 795 00:35:32,594 --> 00:35:35,090 legally speaking. But the Declaration of 796 00:35:35,090 --> 00:35:37,090 Independence is like the mission 797 00:35:37,090 --> 00:35:39,706 statement, okay? Whereas the Constitution 798 00:35:39,706 --> 00:35:43,994 is the operational plan. And so I point to 799 00:35:43,994 --> 00:35:48,826 that example for folks to say, like, look, 800 00:35:48,826 --> 00:35:51,482 we have to exhibit some grace, because any 801 00:35:51,482 --> 00:35:55,486 nation state is part of an evolution, 802 00:35:55,486 --> 00:35:58,400 right? And yes, I would want perfection 803 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,534 today, but any human enterprise over the 804 00:36:01,534 --> 00:36:04,114 last 300,000 years of written human 805 00:36:04,114 --> 00:36:08,226 history, we know is imperfect, right? But 806 00:36:08,226 --> 00:36:10,754 we get to call it like we see it. We get 807 00:36:10,754 --> 00:36:14,526 to acknowledge our part, or our 808 00:36:14,526 --> 00:36:16,226 victimhood, if you will, in this 809 00:36:16,226 --> 00:36:18,806 particular enterprise, and we get to work 810 00:36:18,806 --> 00:36:23,926 to make it better. And so I see that as 811 00:36:23,926 --> 00:36:27,734 the redemption story for our civic faith 812 00:36:27,734 --> 00:36:30,358 that we can be better, and, frankly, that 813 00:36:30,358 --> 00:36:33,686 we have an obligation to work towards that 814 00:36:33,686 --> 00:36:36,722 which is better. And that's why I'm so 815 00:36:36,722 --> 00:36:40,026 motivated by the call to belong. I think 816 00:36:40,026 --> 00:36:43,886 it's the right approach because I don't 817 00:36:43,886 --> 00:36:48,478 think there's any such thing as a group of 818 00:36:48,478 --> 00:36:52,446 people moving in spite of their peers. And 819 00:36:52,446 --> 00:36:56,474 I take particular umbrage to any D I 820 00:36:56,474 --> 00:36:58,538 professional that is intentionally 821 00:36:58,538 --> 00:37:01,298 excluding middle aged white men, number 822 00:37:01,298 --> 00:37:03,586 one. From a standpoint, it doesn't make 823 00:37:03,586 --> 00:37:07,666 sense. According to Sherm, 89% to 90% of 824 00:37:07,666 --> 00:37:09,238 all executive roles, regardless of sector, 825 00:37:09,238 --> 00:37:10,706 are held by white men. So essentially, 826 00:37:10,706 --> 00:37:12,950 you're asking leaders who champion 827 00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:14,962 something that does not allow them to 828 00:37:14,962 --> 00:37:18,798 replicate what human, you know, does that. 829 00:37:18,798 --> 00:37:21,274 Nobody. Nobody does that. And that's not 830 00:37:21,274 --> 00:37:24,186 them being racist, being a human. Okay. I 831 00:37:24,186 --> 00:37:26,666 want to survive, too. Right. This isn't 832 00:37:26,666 --> 00:37:28,330 just about you feeling great about 833 00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:31,938 yourself. And so I think it's an instant 834 00:37:31,938 --> 00:37:33,966 failure as a person focused on inclusion 835 00:37:33,966 --> 00:37:35,994 to not be inclusive in your. It's an 836 00:37:35,994 --> 00:37:39,726 instant failure. Okay? Start over, go back 837 00:37:39,726 --> 00:37:42,734 to school, do whatever. But if you change 838 00:37:42,734 --> 00:37:45,946 the wording a bit and change the tone, 839 00:37:45,946 --> 00:37:48,734 lead with data and then lead with the 840 00:37:48,734 --> 00:37:50,926 aspirational document, all of a sudden 841 00:37:50,926 --> 00:37:52,946 that's a room that's warming up to you. 842 00:37:52,946 --> 00:37:55,794 This is why I think it is safer to start 843 00:37:55,794 --> 00:37:57,314 with where we've been and where we're 844 00:37:57,314 --> 00:38:00,438 going as a nation at the 30,000 foot view, 845 00:38:00,438 --> 00:38:02,978 and then start working your way down in 846 00:38:02,978 --> 00:38:04,614 altitude till you're getting to, like, 847 00:38:04,614 --> 00:38:07,186 what can you actually do different here at 848 00:38:07,186 --> 00:38:10,506 organization, Acme and company to change 849 00:38:10,506 --> 00:38:14,934 the game? Okay, but we get right to. 850 00:38:14,934 --> 00:38:18,938 You're wrong and you're exclusive, and you 851 00:38:18,938 --> 00:38:20,906 have to change something immediately. And 852 00:38:20,906 --> 00:38:23,260 we haven't convinced them on the need to 853 00:38:23,260 --> 00:38:27,966 change. You got to sell it. And we're not 854 00:38:27,966 --> 00:38:30,960 trying to include. And no wonder we're 855 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,078 still pushing this boulder up the hill. 856 00:38:34,078 --> 00:38:36,954 You would think it's better now, politics 857 00:38:36,954 --> 00:38:38,306 aside, so there's really nothing you can 858 00:38:38,306 --> 00:38:41,300 do about that. You just not elect those 859 00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:43,154 people. But clearly, there's a lot of 860 00:38:43,154 --> 00:38:45,222 people in this country who feel like those 861 00:38:45,222 --> 00:38:47,766 people speak for them and they are leading 862 00:38:47,766 --> 00:38:51,830 with grievances and they're leading with 863 00:38:51,830 --> 00:38:56,038 exclusion. And so I don't know how much 864 00:38:56,038 --> 00:38:58,166 you can do to change those hearts and mind 865 00:38:58,166 --> 00:39:00,170 besides just coming back with data and 866 00:39:00,170 --> 00:39:05,846 compassion. But frankly, it's like 867 00:39:05,846 --> 00:39:07,146 dinosaurs who don't know the meteorite has 868 00:39:07,146 --> 00:39:10,346 hit and the environment has changed, and 869 00:39:10,346 --> 00:39:11,866 why are we all running this way? I don't 870 00:39:11,866 --> 00:39:15,154 get it. I'm going to yell as I run to 871 00:39:15,154 --> 00:39:16,366 extinction. I don't know. It's like you 872 00:39:16,366 --> 00:39:18,298 got to wait from the die, I guess, because 873 00:39:18,298 --> 00:39:19,898 they're just not willing to change. 874 00:39:19,898 --> 00:39:23,534 They're not willing to let go of what was 875 00:39:23,534 --> 00:39:26,014 or what they hope to be. And we got to 876 00:39:26,014 --> 00:39:28,418 move forward as a people, as a nation. We 877 00:39:28,418 --> 00:39:30,066 got to move forward. We just don't have 878 00:39:30,066 --> 00:39:32,946 the energy to keep convincing people that 879 00:39:32,946 --> 00:39:34,498 this is something that's good for 880 00:39:34,498 --> 00:39:36,820 everyone. We just have to live it and be 881 00:39:36,820 --> 00:39:40,886 it. Yeah. So true. Yeah. Winning hearts 882 00:39:40,886 --> 00:39:43,414 and minds is a particular strategy and we 883 00:39:43,414 --> 00:39:45,174 need a lot of think tanks around that to 884 00:39:45,174 --> 00:39:47,510 go back to the basics, the foundation of 885 00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:49,626 what humans are actually all about, like 886 00:39:49,626 --> 00:39:52,714 you said. And we all want to belong. That 887 00:39:52,714 --> 00:39:56,682 is an innate part of humanity. Probably 888 00:39:56,682 --> 00:39:58,314 gets really obvious and peaks somewhere 889 00:39:58,314 --> 00:40:00,234 around eigth grade. There's something 890 00:40:00,234 --> 00:40:01,878 about middle school. You see these eigth 891 00:40:01,878 --> 00:40:02,886 graders, they're just all trying to 892 00:40:02,886 --> 00:40:04,918 belong. But honestly, all of us throughout 893 00:40:04,918 --> 00:40:07,066 our lives just need that kind of 894 00:40:07,066 --> 00:40:08,478 belonging. It's part of the human 895 00:40:08,478 --> 00:40:10,526 experience and our development. So thank 896 00:40:10,526 --> 00:40:12,046 you for putting it that way. Thank you for 897 00:40:12,046 --> 00:40:14,510 the work that you do. It's really 898 00:40:14,510 --> 00:40:16,658 inspiring. As we're finishing out this 899 00:40:16,658 --> 00:40:18,274 part of the interview, we will keep you on 900 00:40:18,274 --> 00:40:21,006 later for our Patreon, the difference 901 00:40:21,006 --> 00:40:23,474 maker community, but please let us know 902 00:40:23,474 --> 00:40:25,346 how we can find you and continue to follow 903 00:40:25,346 --> 00:40:28,710 you and your writing and your speaking. 904 00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:31,526 Yes, please look up the Socrates program 905 00:40:31,526 --> 00:40:33,222 at the Aspen Institute, Google. It's only 906 00:40:33,222 --> 00:40:36,278 one of us. Secondly, look up the festival, 907 00:40:36,278 --> 00:40:38,626 the diaspora, or diaspora how you 908 00:40:38,626 --> 00:40:42,234 pronounce it. We do annual events and 909 00:40:42,234 --> 00:40:43,738 starting to really get into global talent, 910 00:40:43,738 --> 00:40:46,314 which I think is amazing. And then just 911 00:40:46,314 --> 00:40:48,022 find me on LinkedIn. That's how I 912 00:40:48,022 --> 00:40:50,334 communicate mostly. Most of my videos and 913 00:40:50,334 --> 00:40:53,242 everything are there. And that's Cordell 914 00:40:53,242 --> 00:40:58,042 Carter II or two. The second out on 915 00:40:58,042 --> 00:41:01,006 LinkedIn. Google me. It's either me or 916 00:41:01,006 --> 00:41:02,946 some folks from Tennessee because I got my 917 00:41:02,946 --> 00:41:04,946 name from Cordell hall, former Secretary 918 00:41:04,946 --> 00:41:10,340 of State, Forty S. So you'll find both out 919 00:41:10,340 --> 00:41:14,222 there. Love that. Yes. Everybody follow 920 00:41:14,222 --> 00:41:15,586 Cordell. Thank you so much for being on 921 00:41:15,586 --> 00:41:17,622 the show today. And thank you for the 922 00:41:17,622 --> 00:41:20,326 difference that you're making. Thank you. 923 00:41:20,326 --> 00:41:21,446 Thank you for the difference you're making 924 00:41:21,446 --> 00:41:24,790 as well. Loved that conversation. Love the 925 00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:29,642 focus on belonging. Was so glad that he 926 00:41:29,642 --> 00:41:32,986 really explained how some of the DEI work 927 00:41:32,986 --> 00:41:36,310 in a lot of tech companies or 928 00:41:36,310 --> 00:41:39,414 organizations has missed sometimes a 929 00:41:39,414 --> 00:41:41,218 component of belonging. I know a lot of 930 00:41:41,218 --> 00:41:45,226 DEI programs added the letter B onto it, 931 00:41:45,226 --> 00:41:48,346 Deib for adding belonging, or even J for 932 00:41:48,346 --> 00:41:50,234 justice. But even just pulling out the 933 00:41:50,234 --> 00:41:52,486 aspect of belonging and focusing on it 934 00:41:52,486 --> 00:41:55,762 exclusively, there's so much conversation 935 00:41:55,762 --> 00:41:58,514 around that and so much to unpack there. 936 00:41:58,514 --> 00:42:01,426 And so really enjoyed his perspective on 937 00:42:01,426 --> 00:42:04,066 all he's seen in the different spaces 938 00:42:04,066 --> 00:42:07,026 where he works and the different people he 939 00:42:07,026 --> 00:42:10,934 interacts with at the different parts of 940 00:42:10,934 --> 00:42:14,166 his world. Right. The Aspen Institute 941 00:42:14,166 --> 00:42:17,302 working in goes. He mentioned Brazil, he 942 00:42:17,302 --> 00:42:20,054 mentioned he's in Africa. His work is sort 943 00:42:20,054 --> 00:42:22,698 of global in this way. But also for those 944 00:42:22,698 --> 00:42:24,522 in the United States and certain tech 945 00:42:24,522 --> 00:42:25,722 companies where you've seen this sort of 946 00:42:25,722 --> 00:42:28,310 thing happen, it is such an important 947 00:42:28,310 --> 00:42:30,842 conversation how to frame it in a way that 948 00:42:30,842 --> 00:42:34,234 really is including people into this area 949 00:42:34,234 --> 00:42:39,578 of full. That's a. It's a very difficult 950 00:42:39,578 --> 00:42:41,294 conversation, but it's such an important 951 00:42:41,294 --> 00:42:43,806 one that we don't want to give up on 952 00:42:43,806 --> 00:42:45,698 because bringing us all to the table with 953 00:42:45,698 --> 00:42:47,378 all of our differences is how we're going 954 00:42:47,378 --> 00:42:50,674 to get there. I really appreciated him 955 00:42:50,674 --> 00:42:53,346 talking about the work he's doing with 956 00:42:53,346 --> 00:42:58,218 women in Colombia and having grown up in 957 00:42:58,218 --> 00:42:59,734 Venezuela, having many Colombian friends 958 00:42:59,734 --> 00:43:02,006 from my time growing up as a little girl 959 00:43:02,006 --> 00:43:04,360 there that are lifelong friends to this 960 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,174 day, also, just the Colombians I know here 961 00:43:07,174 --> 00:43:09,530 in California, the ones I've known in 962 00:43:09,530 --> 00:43:11,882 Singapore, but also just Latin American 963 00:43:11,882 --> 00:43:13,754 women in general, whether they're still 964 00:43:13,754 --> 00:43:15,286 living and working in Latin America or 965 00:43:15,286 --> 00:43:18,074 they've come to other continents for work 966 00:43:18,074 --> 00:43:22,780 or for just immigration reasons, I know 967 00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:26,766 that there are so many obstacles in the 968 00:43:26,766 --> 00:43:31,486 way of the way women from Latin America 969 00:43:31,486 --> 00:43:33,294 can be viewed, at least here in 970 00:43:33,294 --> 00:43:35,886 California, with a lot of stereotypes. And 971 00:43:35,886 --> 00:43:37,666 it's heartbreaking. It's wrong. I know a 972 00:43:37,666 --> 00:43:41,410 lot of incredible women working in tech 973 00:43:41,410 --> 00:43:45,554 who are Latinas, and when I see them 974 00:43:45,554 --> 00:43:50,242 facing obstacles like stereotypes and even 975 00:43:50,242 --> 00:43:52,402 worse, a lot of microaggressions and 976 00:43:52,402 --> 00:43:54,786 macroaggressions, it's so infuriating and 977 00:43:54,786 --> 00:43:57,014 heartbreaking all at once. And so just 978 00:43:57,014 --> 00:43:59,034 seeing the work that he's doing there, 979 00:43:59,034 --> 00:44:00,426 also, I really want to unpack one of the 980 00:44:00,426 --> 00:44:06,182 things he said around this sort of 981 00:44:06,182 --> 00:44:09,942 stereotype and very harmful stereotype 982 00:44:09,942 --> 00:44:15,466 around seeing a woman of color or a white 983 00:44:15,466 --> 00:44:17,134 woman, I mean, this is a stereotype that 984 00:44:17,134 --> 00:44:21,594 might face all women in any work 985 00:44:21,594 --> 00:44:23,442 environment, but to assume that because 986 00:44:23,442 --> 00:44:29,380 she got a promotion that she did so around 987 00:44:29,380 --> 00:44:33,410 that sexualizing her, to assume that that 988 00:44:33,410 --> 00:44:35,460 happened because she had to sleep with 989 00:44:35,460 --> 00:44:38,006 someone to get that promotion or even that 990 00:44:38,006 --> 00:44:42,598 that narrative exists is exhausting for a 991 00:44:42,598 --> 00:44:46,262 lot of women to have to be perceived that 992 00:44:46,262 --> 00:44:48,690 way. But also infuriating. And I just want 993 00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:50,714 to be clear, that is a stereotype we never 994 00:44:50,714 --> 00:44:53,098 want to give into, and we don't even want 995 00:44:53,098 --> 00:44:58,906 to entertain that thought. So do women get 996 00:44:58,906 --> 00:45:01,190 in situations where they are experiencing 997 00:45:01,190 --> 00:45:03,562 abuse of power from a boss in the 998 00:45:03,562 --> 00:45:06,014 workplace? Yes. Is there sexual abuse that 999 00:45:06,014 --> 00:45:08,046 happens in the workplace? Yes, but that's 1000 00:45:08,046 --> 00:45:10,286 not exclusively what's happening. And so 1001 00:45:10,286 --> 00:45:13,246 in order to clear that whole thing up, it 1002 00:45:13,246 --> 00:45:15,406 would be important for us to unpack that 1003 00:45:15,406 --> 00:45:17,314 as a community. And I just want to be 1004 00:45:17,314 --> 00:45:18,706 really clear on that. That I don't find 1005 00:45:18,706 --> 00:45:21,906 that whole narrative to be helpful at all. 1006 00:45:21,906 --> 00:45:24,146 So it's so important for us to be involved 1007 00:45:24,146 --> 00:45:26,926 in work like what's happening with VC 1008 00:45:26,926 --> 00:45:29,222 funding to go toward Latino women as they 1009 00:45:29,222 --> 00:45:31,014 are being entrepreneurial and trying to 1010 00:45:31,014 --> 00:45:33,398 start businesses. So I'd love to hear more 1011 00:45:33,398 --> 00:45:35,014 of your perspective in this community 1012 00:45:35,014 --> 00:45:37,746 around how we can do better with that, 1013 00:45:37,746 --> 00:45:41,130 because that is something that is 1014 00:45:41,130 --> 00:45:44,666 incredibly imbalanced. We see that all the 1015 00:45:44,666 --> 00:45:47,146 time here in Silicon Valley with people 1016 00:45:47,146 --> 00:45:49,414 who are entrepreneurial and so much of the 1017 00:45:49,414 --> 00:45:54,046 VC capital funding going toward men and 1018 00:45:54,046 --> 00:45:57,546 the outcomes of that being so over time 1019 00:45:57,546 --> 00:45:59,134 detrimental to women and their families 1020 00:45:59,134 --> 00:46:02,174 and Latina families in general. So, yeah, 1021 00:46:02,174 --> 00:46:03,326 would love to know more about your 1022 00:46:03,326 --> 00:46:07,986 thoughts around that. And always reach out 1023 00:46:07,986 --> 00:46:10,382 to talk to me either through DMs on 1024 00:46:10,382 --> 00:46:14,114 Twitter or. This is another chance for you 1025 00:46:14,114 --> 00:46:15,726 to. Want to join us in our difference. 1026 00:46:15,726 --> 00:46:17,218 Maker community because we go deeper, and. 1027 00:46:17,218 --> 00:46:18,806 We'Re going to go deeper in a conversation 1028 00:46:18,806 --> 00:46:21,766 with Cordell. He stays on to talk a little 1029 00:46:21,766 --> 00:46:24,358 more deeply about some things that we tend 1030 00:46:24,358 --> 00:46:26,280 to talk more about in the difference maker 1031 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,274 community. So for those of you who haven't 1032 00:46:28,274 --> 00:46:29,686 joined in there yet, you can join for as 1033 00:46:29,686 --> 00:46:32,266 little as $5 a month. We'd love to have 1034 00:46:32,266 --> 00:46:34,218 you pop in there and go deeper in this 1035 00:46:34,218 --> 00:46:35,478 particular conversation because I think 1036 00:46:35,478 --> 00:46:39,306 it's a really important one. Also, if you 1037 00:46:39,306 --> 00:46:42,714 have not yet found a therapist and you're 1038 00:46:42,714 --> 00:46:44,014 looking for one, and you're walking 1039 00:46:44,014 --> 00:46:45,694 through anything in your life personally 1040 00:46:45,694 --> 00:46:48,350 right now, I know many of you in this 1041 00:46:48,350 --> 00:46:50,522 community are either it's compassion 1042 00:46:50,522 --> 00:46:52,480 fatigue, you've worked through some sort 1043 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,266 of personal relationship with someone that 1044 00:46:55,266 --> 00:46:57,650 you just needed a little extra help, or 1045 00:46:57,650 --> 00:46:59,806 maybe you're in a situation where you've 1046 00:46:59,806 --> 00:47:03,086 walked through trauma, either because of 1047 00:47:03,086 --> 00:47:04,526 nonprofit work that you're working in and 1048 00:47:04,526 --> 00:47:07,134 you've experienced a disaster, or you've 1049 00:47:07,134 --> 00:47:10,006 experienced some kind of civil unrest, I 1050 00:47:10,006 --> 00:47:11,574 know many of you listening to this podcast 1051 00:47:11,574 --> 00:47:13,890 have had to be evacuated in different 1052 00:47:13,890 --> 00:47:16,054 situations. I myself and my family have 1053 00:47:16,054 --> 00:47:18,694 gone through that as well, more than once. 1054 00:47:18,694 --> 00:47:21,014 And so a lot of times we just need a 1055 00:47:21,014 --> 00:47:23,386 professional to talk about things with. So 1056 00:47:23,386 --> 00:47:25,866 the sponsor of this podcast is Betterhelp. 1057 00:47:25,866 --> 00:47:28,618 And so if you go to BetterHelp.com 1058 00:47:28,618 --> 00:47:30,860 difference, you can get 10% off your first 1059 00:47:30,860 --> 00:47:32,746 month. Once again, they're the sponsor of 1060 00:47:32,746 --> 00:47:35,278 this podcast, and I myself personally have 1061 00:47:35,278 --> 00:47:37,946 been very much helped by my therapist at 1062 00:47:37,946 --> 00:47:39,214 Betterhelp. And they have all kinds of 1063 00:47:39,214 --> 00:47:41,994 other resources, not just one on one 1064 00:47:41,994 --> 00:47:43,826 therapy, but group therapy and classes you 1065 00:47:43,826 --> 00:47:46,254 can take around specific issues, whether 1066 00:47:46,254 --> 00:47:52,706 it's CPTSD, PTSD, walking through trauma, 1067 00:47:52,706 --> 00:47:54,718 all kinds of various forms of grief and 1068 00:47:54,718 --> 00:47:56,722 loss that you can be a part of communities 1069 00:47:56,722 --> 00:47:58,306 to help you walk through that. So yeah, go 1070 00:47:58,306 --> 00:48:01,766 to www.betterhelp.com difference today to 1071 00:48:01,766 --> 00:48:04,838 get 10% off your first month. And for all 1072 00:48:04,838 --> 00:48:06,246 of you out there all around the world who 1073 00:48:06,246 --> 00:48:07,814 are making a difference, thank you for 1074 00:48:07,814 --> 00:48:09,718 every single thing that you do. I hope 1075 00:48:09,718 --> 00:48:11,430 that you get some rest and take care of 1076 00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:13,334 yourself because all of you out there 1077 00:48:13,334 --> 00:48:15,350 making a difference often don't prioritize 1078 00:48:15,350 --> 00:48:17,186 yourself. So this is your friendly 1079 00:48:17,186 --> 00:48:19,686 reminder to care for yourself and that 1080 00:48:19,686 --> 00:48:21,806 when you do that that will help you to be 1081 00:48:21,806 --> 00:48:23,374 the kind of person you want to be to keep 1082 00:48:23,374 --> 00:48:26,106 making a difference. So yeah, friendly 1083 00:48:26,106 --> 00:48:27,582 reminder to do something good for yourself 1084 00:48:27,582 --> 00:48:29,806 today, to make your body feel good, to get 1085 00:48:29,806 --> 00:48:32,478 some rest that you might need and to find 1086 00:48:32,478 --> 00:48:34,366 something that just brings you happiness 1087 00:48:34,366 --> 00:48:37,390 and joy. And as always keep making a