Change: Unveiling Christine McAlister: Women's Stories, Being a Top 1% Podcast Guest, & Relationship Building

It.

Welcome to the A World of Difference podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown, and this is.

A podcast for those who are different.

And want to make a difference.

I hope you're still enjoying your Women's History Month all around the world. We have another woman on the show this week, Christine McAlister. She is passionate about helping entrepreneurs attract their next clients by being top 1% podcast guests. If you've ever wanted to be a podcast guest on a podcast and in Women's History Month, we are very much into making sure women's voices are being heard around the world throughout history and even currently. And podcasting is a great way to tell your story as a woman. And Christine not only helps women, but she also helps men. She and her clients have generated over $1 million as podcast guests, and she's been recognized as the best in the world at Podcast Guesting by seven figure founders like John Lee Dumas. I met her at Podfest in line at one of the events for speakers, and we struck up a friendship, and here we are on a podcast together. She's a media expert for two decades, and she's broadcast the Olympic Games, been produced an award winning documentary for PBS, has been featured in Inc, business Insider, Bustle, The Huffington Post, and on over 100 podcasts, in addition to hosting her own top rated show, Podcast Guesting for Profit. You are going to be just so delighted to hear what she has to say because she's the kind of person that is a giver, and that's kind of where she's gotten to where she is because she's very good at relationship building. So it is such an honor to introduce to you today, if you don't already know who she is, Christine McAlister.

Hello, Christine. And a very, very warm welcome to the A World of Difference Podcast to you today.

Thank you so much, Lori. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, me too.

It's so great to meet you at Podfest in Orlando and have a chance to get to talk at the little party while we're waiting in the long line for yummy food. But here we are recording today podcast in Women's History Month, of all things. And so this is exciting, having two women and podcasting. It's still a minority.

What?

We were like, 15%, which I think is bizarre, but we learned at the Podfest that in France, it's the opposite. Those statistics are flipped. It's exactly the opposite of men and women there. I'm like, Maybe we should move to France.

Not opposed.

No, not opposed. Definitely not. Well, I'm excited to get to talk to you today and your history as a woman and what brought you into podcasting and just tell us a little bit about your background and how you became interested in podcast guesting, specifically.

Oh, my gosh. Very long and winding path, right? Because if you're listening to this on audio, you can't see the spray paint I have covering all of the grades in my hair right now. And if you are watching this on video, you're looking a little bit closer now. But I have been in media and storytelling since 1999 and it's been my entire career and it has looked like being a producer, a documentary producer, a sports broadcasting producer for the Olympics and for some other sporting events. It's been as a professor, it's been as an online marketer running an agency. It's been helping other people build their businesses and market them. And really about six and a half years ago, I was invited to be on my first podcast. And it was something that I was interested in doing, but I was frankly really intimidated and scared to reach out. I didn't know how. I didn't want to be that person like anything new. I think I was just like, if I'm not going to be perfect at it and guaranteed to succeed, then I'm not doing it. Because that's how I was trained as an oldest high achiever, type A, growing up in purity culture in the church. My damn to be perfect. Yeah, preach. Right? And also a people pleaser, right? Throw that in the mix. So I just hit out until somebody made it really easy for me and invited me. And then I actually recorded that very first podcast interview. Eight and a half months pregnant, double high risk. And I was laying in a labor and a labor and delivery triage bed, like my gosh hooked up to all the monitors because I had been sent up to the hospital for additional monitoring after like, a routine appointment and they had determined that the baby was okay. And so I was like, looking at my watch going, I think I can keep this appointment that I really want to keep. Even though everybody else thought I was crazy, I really didn't want to reschedule. So having such a great experience under those circumstances, very stressful, I thought, well, this could be something I could enjoy a whole lot more just in life. And so that was a gracious gift to get me over my fear and resistance. And from there I went in as just something I was doing as a joy. And then I feel like the way that I was approaching it was a gift. I didn't know that I was different than anyone else. But people started asking me to teach it a few years ago, and I taught it for free, probably for two years before some people who had been before me in business kind of came alongside me and went, Christine, this is a thing. Like, John Lee Dumas of Entrepreneur on Fire was kind enough to say to me, I've interviewed 3000 people and I can count on one hand the number of them who've done what you do and show up the way you've shown up. Like, you've got to do something with this. And I went okay, right? So from there, I again had to get out of my own way and eventually pivoted my whole business to helping people share their stories and their work in a really authentic way that also helps them build their business without hopefully taking anything away from the amazing work that the host is doing.

Wild. So wild. This is why we need to hear women's stories. This is why Women's History Month is so incredible. Because you did your first podcast interview under those circumstances. The things that women are bearing, like literally bearing children, but also having to do podcast interviews in the circumstances that are medically risky for you and your baby and still you're pushing through. I posted something yesterday on my Instagram. It was a repost of this mom who does comics. I'm not sure if you follow her, but you should. I'll try to figure it out and link it in the show notes. But it was this huge mountain, this very steep mountain and this mom carrying all this stuff and walking up it and then next to the mountain is like one of those just tiny little steps almost like back in the 80s when we did aerobics, like step aerobics, like that level anyway. And it was like the standard for moms in terms of how they parent was the mountain and this mom climbing of it and then the standard for dads. And I say this all having had a great very hands on dad and a husband who's very hands on, but we know this, right? That the standards of what women have to carry while they work, while they're podcasting, while they're doing. I know so many women in podcasting are doing so many other things, which may explain the only 15%, right? Because it's a lot to add. And so thank you for your story. I think that's why women's stories are so important, because we have so much going on like you did.

It's so true. And I feel like I often look around in business and in podcasting. I didn't even know that statistic. So thank you for sharing it. That's only 15% of us are women and I think where are all the other women who are feeling the way I'm feeling, right? You are one of these incredible women who carry so much, who do so much, right? And the lack of support and even the opposite of that that is carried on is kind of astounding and also kind of a relief to learn because it can feel so lonely to go like, why is this? I know I'm capable. I know I'm smart. Right? And it's like butting up against a brick wall and you're bloodied and bruised and going, why haven't I made it through that yet? But I think a lot of it is expectations and they are reinforced and reinforced and reinforced to the point where we take them on and we don't even realize we have them, right? And I agree with you. This medium, to me, it's a healing one because I have seen the power of sharing my story and have experienced the power of hearing other people's stories and the instant intimacy and connection that it creates either as a listener or as a host or a guest. And I think it can change the world. And, I mean, I didn't even say that thinking about the title of your podcast, but that's what you're doing.

That's what you're doing, what we're trying to do.

I love it so much.

Yeah, no, it's true. I mean, there's something about our common humanity. They say, what there's only, like, what, seven stories out there? And so whenever you share your story, even if people haven't walked through those exact circumstances, they're going to relate to part of it. And storytelling is everything from the narrative method in trauma therapy to when you're doing a job interview, tell a story, and the person on the other side of the interview is going to connect with that experience that you have in your career. Somehow our stories not only help us heal, but they help us understand one another and make a difference together. But you talked about marketing as a strategy, right, with podcasting. So help us understand how does podcast guesting really fit into, like, a broader marketing strategy and maybe what are some of the benefits of even being a podcast guest?

Yeah, so my belief is that for small businesses, like personal brands, online podcast guesting can really be the center of your marketing if you let it. And it can also create all of the content if you will allow yourself to repurpose it, all of the content that you will ever need should you choose to be active on social media or have an email list or those types of things. And I find that for people like you and me who really enjoy this conversational way of relating, it gives so much more energy in life than sitting down and going, oh, my gosh, now I have to create more posts. Now I have to create more stories. Now I have to live on my phone or I have to do this or do that. Like, all these have to's that get preached and imprinted into us. And I just I just call BS on that and say, like, why? Right? I think just because these are the loudest voices telling us how to market doesn't mean that's the only way that people are succeeding. And what I think a lot of people realize is that being a podcast guest specifically can get you in front of a whole new audience, right? Like, if you're listening to this, you are listening probably because you love Lori and the conversations that Lori cultivates and brings to you. And so I'm lucky because now I get to connect with you because of Lori and because of the community that you're building. Right. But most people just think about that part of it, like, oh, I get to get in front of other people's audiences and then I can grab what I can and take it with me. And I look at a podcast interview, like a first date with somebody that I want to have a long relationship with instead of a one night stand. I don't know if we can say that there are any kids reasoning.

Yeah, we don't want one night stands. They're just not good for anyone.

They're not good for anyone. Right. I honestly can't say that I've ever had one, but from what I don't.

Me neither. But they sound horrible.

They sound terrible. Not the way that I choose to do life. Right. And so the way that I would show up for somebody that's a first date with somebody I'm really interested in is so different than I would show up for somebody I hope I never see again. Right. And I would care completely differently about how I show up in this way. And so to me, yes, of course, by nature of being on a podcast, I'm going to get to be in front of a new audience. Yes. And there are so many other beautiful collaborations, connections, benefits. We've identified like 20 of them that can come from being a guest and that can benefit you and your business that most people just don't think about because they're just like there to promote themselves instead of making it a true collaboration, a true win for everyone involved. And so I want to change the way it's done, I want to be disruptive about it and bring the values that I think people who like to collaborate have that just don't exist a lot in this space because of the way most people think about it yet.

No, this is great. This is so very welcome. I was just thrilled to meet you and know that you do this work because I think it is making a difference and you are making a difference. Can you kind of help us walk us through maybe your approach to finding and pitching podcast hosts and what tips do you have for making a strong impression?

Yeah, the number that I've heard, and you may have a more recent number, but I've heard like 3 million podcasts are out there right now. Is that what you've yeah, I think.

They mentioned that at Podfest. Yeah.

Okay, cool. So that's a lot and it's really overwhelming. I recommend going back to basics as we would in any business, if we're creating a new offer, if we're working on our messaging or whatever. Find out what I call your clonable clients, those people that you wish you could fill your entire business with. Find out what they're listening to. Find out what they're listening to. I said this to somebody who had been in the industry for years the other day and he's like, I have never heard that before. Good. Let's find out what our clients are listening to, because you only really need one podcast to find all the ones that are related to it and then related to it and down the rabbit hole you go. Right. So most people think about it like, what is the biggest podcast that I can be on? But I think that's a vanity metric because it's probably not all of the people that you want to get in front of. It's just a lot of people. Right. And instead, I believe that quality over quantity, getting in front of the right people, you probably have a very specific profile of person that you most enjoy working with and that gets the best benefit from you or your products or your services. And so find out what they're listening to and then research those shows. Find out if they feel like a fit. The host feels like somebody you would like make to be a friend long term and create a customized outreach that shows them what you're going to do for them and their show and what you could bring that might be unique rather than the way most people approach it, which is hi, I'm Christine. Here's my book. Here's what I've done. Here are some of the things I can talk about. Here are some questions you might want to ask me. What do you think? And I get those pitches all the time and I think, no, that is my answer. You sometimes can't even bother to copy and paste the name of my podcast into your email. Right. I know what you're doing. I know I'm going to pay possibly hundreds of dollars in my time or dollars to produce this episode and host it and promote you. You could care less about me, see straight through it. Like, let's do something different.

Yeah, I love that.

That is your question?

Absolutely. It answers my question. And this is so beautiful, the work that you're doing, because it's bringing humanity back to it instead of using one another in transactional ways. We're being more relational, and that just feels better. I don't care what your personality and your culture and your age and your gender is. It does not feel good to have transactional relationships in the end. I mean, you may get by with it for a little while and build a big business or something, but honestly, like, what has happened to you, your soul, your body, who you are as a person, it gets tipped away and those kind of relationships that use people. And so, yeah, let's talk about some of the common mistakes, though, that you see people making when they're trying to land a podcast guest opportunity. You mentioned a little bit, but are there more that we could learn from here?

Yeah, I think it all starts with this shifting the way that you look at it. Right. Because while I might do it a little bit differently than someone else if you're coming at it from these values of humanity that is felt. Right? So I think we've covered two of them. Not going just for the biggest ones, but for going for the right ones for you and your audience, and then not sending a spray and pray, copy and paste pitch, but actually doing the research to show just like, if you are applying for a job, your likelihood of if you're creating a resume that looks like it's tailored. I mean, honestly, right? We're not lying. But if it's tailored to the job description and highlights just what a great fit you are versus, here's my one and only PDF resume, I'm going to upload it to everything that I think I might be a fit for and see what happens. So really investing the time to create that custom pitch. And then I think another thing that I see all of the time is people making the assumption that this is just like a coffee chat and that if we're good at talking to people or we're a great speaker, I see this one all the time. We're a great speaker, we're a great facilitator, we're a great workshop leader that's going to make us a great podcast guest. But it actually usually makes you a really boring podcast guest because you just deliver your talking points and it's rehearsed and it's staged and people feel it. And again, everybody's listening because of you. Lori, there's a reason you have a patreon community, right, which everybody should check out, by the way, because Merch, not just Merch, but also merch.

Thank you.

Support the show, get merch. But seriously, I mean, that's a testament to you are doing this thing. You are building a community. People come back episode after episode and care about you and each other outside of these conversations, but 99% of people just show up and are like, this is about me. Make me look as good as possible. They could care less if you have a patreon. They could care less about your goals with this podcast. And that comes across, and that is like boring, ego old paradigm of doing business, in my opinion. Check yourself. Like, you might have not even realized that you were doing that. Most people don't. Like, I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt, right? But also, we've all been there. Gut check. Like, are you showing up just to have that notch in your belt and that spike in your email subscribers? Then that's going to be felt and you're going to be one of the people I talk to every day who go, I've been on ten, 5100, 200 podcasts, and I haven't gotten a single client from it. Why? Because people can feel why you're doing it, right? And it comes across in your strategy and the way you show up in everything about it and the way that people feel when they're listening to you is way more important than the words of your keynote or your seven simple steps or any of that.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's that quote. Who was it? People remember how you make them feel, and that's just so important in business and education and podcasting. Do you have any success stories from your clients or students, people that you've worked with who've used podcast guesting to grow their businesses?

Yeah, thank you for asking that. Our clients get an average or book an average of one high ticket client per appearance, which means sometimes it's more and sometimes it's less. I can think of a client who had like a six figure month and another client who made like, $150,000 from, like, three episodes, three interviews, and the reason is because they were treating it like a real conversation. Like the the list goes on, right? We could apply this to change. We could apply this to making a difference. Right. And I'm really curious as for your thoughts, because I know a little bit of the journey that you walk that you've shared with me, but most people just want to skip the steps. But can you get me on the Joe Rogan show? What have we been talking? Right? No, this is like, if I came to you and I said, I want to invite you to be on the Ted stage, would you prep, would you study? Would you maybe hire someone to help you if you felt like you needed it? Or would you be like, I got this, I'm good at talks, right? Or would you be like, that launched Brene Brown's public facing career. I think I'm going to do right. So I think it's like that. It's just people don't know. Yes, those results are completely possible, and they're trackable and all of that stuff, but where we see people get hung up is, like, in the details of how big of a show or they get impostor syndrome or why would anyone want to hear from me? Or whatever. And they're not willing to embrace that. This is a new skill and a new stage. But you've done guesting before. Do you feel like it's different?

Different than like, a Ted stage?

Yeah, like a keynote. Because I know you're a speaker as well as a host or a coffee chat.

No, it's 100% different. Yeah, it's a conversation. When you're on a stage, you can get a little interaction from the audience, but mostly those lights are so bright, it's hard to even see who you're talking to half the time. And there's a psychology around that. There's a group, you're on the stage, people expect you to talk. But podcast is so different. It is an exchange, it is a conversation. My best guess, and I would say I've had many, like what you're describing who just intuitively understand how to have conversations. I grew up in a warm culture, so there's warm cultures cold cultures. And warm cultures are literally warmer, like temperature as well as just relationally in the tropical zones of the world. Right. And so I learned the art of conversation because I grew up in warm culture. Cold culture doesn't do as well with this. And we can be a little more individualistic, a little more me centric instead of collectivist thinking. But because I have so many diversity of guests, a lot of them are from warm cultures and who understand how to have a conversation, but they can also be on a stage and talk and do that well, but they're completely different skill sets.

I just learned something new I did not know about warm and cold cultures. Thank you.

Happy to introduce you. Yes, I love talking cultures. I have a master's in intercultural studies and I grew up a third culture kid and so I love cultures. Yes, that's why we do this.

Amazing.

Yeah. I'm sure you've dealt with people, though, in different cultures and different personalities. And it's not just introverts extroverts.

Right?

Sometimes introverts can be some of the best speakers on stages or really good in a one on one conversation. So you can't judge a book by its cover is what I've learned. But there are some skills that you can teach people and I'm glad you're teaching those. Do you have any advice for somebody who's, like you mentioned imposter syndrome? So I'm thinking of a person who really could contribute something, could come to the table of podcast, guesting and share some of their experiences, share about their business, but they're just insecure about it or afraid or thinking, what do I have to offer? Yeah, I just wondered if you could take a moment to talk to that particular person who maybe has been beaten down and thought they didn't have much to share.

Yeah, I mean, I can feel myself almost start to sweat thinking about how I used to feel about this and thinking I had to show up a certain kind of way and be like somebody else or what will people say if and look, that's all real, right. Those feelings are designed to keep us in a community and keep us alive. I am not here to tell you that your nervous system is not something that you have to pay attention to. Just ask all the trauma healing practitioners I work with. But I feel like if there's something that you care about enough or and or a business that you have that you're allowing an exchange of money to come your way. Right. You're serving people in exchange for money. Or maybe you run a nonprofit that you're really passionate about and that you allow people to donate toward. Right. That you fundraise for. If you've already done the work to allow yourself to receive or your organization to receive money in exchange for whatever you're providing, then you have enough expertise and enough clarity on your message, enough whatever it is that you're telling yourself you don't have enough of. You have enough to be able to go onto a podcast and share your heart about it and share your vision about it for free like you do. You've already done the hardest part, which is get to the point where you will allow someone or someone's to pay you and you've validated something to the point where they are willing to put their money toward your thing. And so you've already done that, then you've done enough. This is a belief, this is a fear because it's new. And anything that's new, our brain or our ego or whatever, is going to try to kick up and be like, you can't do that because don't do that or you're going to die. Right? Essentially is the message. And I joke with my clients a lot. It's like, all you need to do is just do it and not die. And then it will be easier the next time. Right? We might feel like our life is in danger and our job is to whatever we need to do, get ourselves to a place where we will show up despite that. And then we start to get the message through our bodies of like, oh, that was actually fun. Oh, that was worth it. Oh, I think I'd like to do that again. Right? And the muscle builds and the faith builds and the trust builds.

Yeah, it reminds me, I mean, you mentioned Brene Brown and how she got started on the TEDx stage and she talks about in one of her books, the FFTs. The F stands for not. Nice word. But first times, the first time you do something, it just feels like the F word, right? Because it's hard. And so it can be hard because our perfectionism can get in the way. Like you said, you grew up in a world that made you be perfect and so it can feel hard to do something the first time and it won't be perfect because it never is. And that's okay. It gets better over time. And like you said, we can be like, how did that go? What did I like about it? What did I not like about it? And then keep doing more of what you love. And we need voices out there that are not speaking right now. And so I love that you're helping to coach and train people that I would love to have on my podcast as we bring a diversity of voices around the table. So I just want to say thank you for the great work that you're doing. I hope anybody who's considering being a podcast guest, if that's ever been a thought, or maybe you're just now having this thought that you'd reach out to Christine for some coaching and just to see what could happen. I mean, who knows? Open your imagination. Like, let's dream of a world in which you could. Actually make a difference by being a podcast guest on this podcast or many other types of podcasts because we need more voices. Wouldn't you agree, Christine?

I would. And especially as women, like, I'm sitting here thinking, right, we were brought up to be perfect and to be nice and to be all of these things and submissive and deferential. And there's so much work, internal work, that's involved in letting ourselves be seen. My mom couldn't open a credit card in her own name, right, like, when she became an adult. And so we are so new in the US. And a lot of countries even newer, right, all over the world. We all have our different experiences with being able to share our voices and take a seat at the table. And I think podcasting is a great equalizer in a lot of ways. And so I'm super grateful that within podcasting, there is this space to celebrate differences, right, because for so many people, we just get more and more insular. And I love your approach. So thank you.

Thank you. Well, it's as much fun for me as anything. I love sitting here listening to each guest and each person's perspectives. And you have given us so much to think about today. And thank you for sharing your own history with us as a woman. And I hope that we're shaping women's history by helping these stories come out more and more because we learn so much from women and men, too, of course. But this is our month, so let us have the one month, right? We appreciate you, too, of course, but this is the work we do together, shoulder to shoulder, and it's just the time to highlight women. So thanks for being on and you're going to hang out with us after this for another little snippet exclusive for our Patreon supporters. But I just want to close out this interview by saying thank you for.

The work that you do.

How can people find you and learn more about the work that you do?

Thanks. I have a checklist that you can use to be a great podcast guest. And I love checklists because I love dopamine. So checking things off of a list electronically or in printing it off on paper makes my brain happy. So you can grab that@lifewithpassion.com checklist and get your own dopamine hit, too.

Love it. Thanks for the dopamine hit. Wow, I didn't realize you're going to get that as a bonus. This is really awesome. Everybody go get your dopamine hit by downloading this checklist. And I would love to hear how this dopamine hit is making you happier all around the world. Let us know. But thanks for being on today, Christine. It's been just a delightful conversation and I hope you enjoy the rest of your Women's History Month.

You, too.

Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. I just love to hear the stories of women in Women's History Month, but actually every month, because when we listen to women, we get to hear just incredible things about their lives. And in a world where we so often told his story, getting to hear her story is so important because half the world has something to say, and Christine certainly has something to say. I really appreciated how she was so raw and vulnerable with me, even when I first met her, about having lost a child. That is such a deeply impactful experience that I cannot even begin to imagine how that forms you in that kind of trauma. But she really brings her vulnerability into her relationships and her work, and I really appreciate that about her. I find it that vulnerability to be very intriguing and it makes me want to draw near and get to know her more. She's a fascinating person with a deep faith and a deep desire to help elevate the voices of others. And so if you have any interest at all in being a podcast guest, and I hope that you do, because podcasting is such fun, and we want to hear more of your voices out there. We need more diversity around this table of podcasting to help us walk through all the things we're trying to change in the world together. And so we need you. And I would love for you to reach out to her. She would be very helpful. I know. Reach out to Christine McAlister. We'll have her information in the show notes and she can coach you on how to be a podcast guest and how to do it well, because she's a great example today, wasn't she? And there's a movie that everybody's been talking about even before Women's History Month. It's called Women Talking, and if you haven't seen it, highly recommend it won best adapted screenplay recently at the Oscars. My Twitter feed is all abuzz about it and my husband and I had a chance to watch it last month in February, and it is very impactful. Just listening to women's stories is so important. So since we're here in Women's History Month, that's my shout out for that movie. I'm not getting paid at all or sponsored by them, but it's about women in a faith community and abuse, and these are topics we cover here on the World of Difference podcast. So I'd love for you to let me know if you've seen it, reach out to me on Twitter to let me know, or you can join our Facebook group or even better, join us in our patreon community where we go a little bit deeper in each of these episodes. And we'll be talking to Christine in an exclusive episode there. We're going to go a little deeper with her and I hope that you join us. For only $5 a month, you can be a part of this community where we go a little deeper with exclusive episodes. We have a little bit of fun. And there's some merch like Christine mentioned, so I would love for you. This is consider this your very welcome and warm invitation to join us in that community. We'd love to have you. And then the meantime, keep enjoying this woman's History Month. I'd love to know what you're learning and what voices you're paying attention to this month, this year. Take care, everyone. Keep making a difference, wherever you are.

Bye bye.